Better brakes

[tomale]

I was wondering if someone makes a better brake shoe for vintage bikes. And if so do they make one for my MC5  Along the same lines are there some tricks to making the brakes work better? It is not that they are all that bad now but sunday's race had some down hills in it with a hairpin corner at the bottom. I had to slow down alot sooner than I wanted to in order to make the corner. And it would be nice to be able to drive alittle harder into a corner if I had better brakes.
I really do not want to change out the front wheel. I would like to keep it stock if possible. I am competing against newer hondas with better brakes.
Go Penton!

Thom Green,I own and ride a 76 250 MC5 MX which I bought new.

[DKWRACER]

Can try Ferodos from Vintage Brake in Calif.....Tom.....

 

[Lew Mayer]

Thom,
Let me know if you find some Ferodos. I've been chasing some for my 74 'Piner without much luck. I need some for the small hubs.

Lewis A Mayer

[Mike Lenz]

KTM brakes are one of these bikes strong points and work very well normally. Well the OEM brakes work well. Ive never had any luck with the Forma shoes. Your problem is prob that the brakes were worn in in a different hub than the one they are in now or they got turned around[outside in .ect]. Also make sure they are spaced right so the lining is not running too far into the hub, or too far out. Play around with these things until you figure out which way they feel the firmest[where the lever feels the least spongy]. Then sand them down with course paper, go out and ride the bike holding the brake on for a bit take off the wheel and see where the shoes are hitting. If not uniform sand the spots they are hitting and try again. Properly seated OEM shoes work as well or better than any other brakes ive tried. I can easily lock my front up at any time any speed. You may need to do the sanding routine with new shoes also.

 

[tomale]

Lew,
Al B has them in stock for my bike. maybe he has them for yours as well. he told me that he has the backs on backorder. but that has been for a long time.
That is ok with me. I think that what I need is the fronts anyway.
I may have put them on backwards I will have to check that out. They are the stock pads and the only thing that has been done to them is I have taken them off and cleaned up the parts and greased the pivot points.... and of course. taken coarse sand paper to remove glazing. They seem to be wearing evenly. A new set of shoes could only help.

What do you think about the cable being too old and having too much flex in the casing?

Thom Green,I own and ride a 76 250 MC5 MX which I bought new.

[Gavin Housh]

Thom, I've got the vintage brake pads from California , and I can say WHAT A RIPPOFF! That jerk charged me $100 to reline my 72 sixday fronts. They didn't work much better than the stock pads! I've had some shoes relined by Speed and Sport in California also for about $30 with much better brake material. Gavin

 

[chris richardson]

I also had a pair "relined" by vintage brake. The rear lining separated from one shoe and locked up the rear wheel at speed during the national in AZ.
Not my kind of excitement!
CR

 

[tomale]

Well, I got the replacement front shoes and have installed them but I have yet to take the bike out. I am working on a couple of other things too. I did not know that you could get new pads put on old shoes.... We use to have that for the car but they have long since stopped doing that. So, I guess I will hang on to the old ones. I have a race next saturday and I hope that I will have enough time to seat the new shoes. Thanks for all the help

Thom Green,I own and ride a 76 250 MC5 MX which I bought new.

[tooclose racing]

How about this for resurrecting an old topic!?

1) I am just obsessed with getting better front brakes on my Jackpiner and MC5.  

2) Ironically my quest with the MC5's rear brake is to figure out how to make it NOT bite so good IN A WOODS RACE - I have more than one 2nd (3rd, 4th...) place trophy in my case that is the result of stalling the MC5 and fumbling/bumbling for 30 seconds to get my bike going again.

To that end, I have pulled apart all my wheel hubs post-season.  Brake shoes are all in good condition, ie plenty of shoe left. Sanded and cleaned them.   I am going to replace both front brake cables (Al B sells Terry cables with the integral brake hub adjuster piece) in my quest to get rid of some of the sponginess and possible flex present. Pretty sure both cables are OLD.  

Now - I read Mike Lenz's advice below - pretty good stuff, but I'm lazy so not sure I'm gonna do THAT this late in the season, but I have kind of a related question:

What is the best surface to leave on the metal hub? Polished to a mirror shine OR rough or somewhere in-between?  Part of me says "near" mirror- ie, ensure there is the maximum amount of surface for the shoe to grab. Wouldn't a rougher surface provide less grabbing area, so to speak?  Or am I bass-ackwards in my thinking?[]

Finally - back to my rear brake on the MC5.  Thoughts? Funny story - raced the Ormstown QC XC race this year. Killed the MC5 twice on opening lap (what a GREAT technical course BTW!)and said goodbye to large trophy and possible liason with exotic French-speaking race hostess.  Hit their creek crossing/run at end of 1st lap - complete with 50+ spectators with cowbells and horns - exited creek and from then on I never stalled, partly because my rear brakes went to about 1/3rd of their stopping capability.  Duh.

So - any tricks of the trade? Hit the shoes with WD40 before the race?  Immerse rear wheel in tub of water for two minutes?  I'm all ears.  []

[gooddirt]

Big bucks is Race-Tech's Brake Arcing.  JP Morgan has run a Bultaco rear hub .Speed and Sport did a semi-metal brake shoe redo on my CZ front some years ago; was like a having a Disc brake' it grabbed that good.

[ALB]

Ferodo is the only brand of shoes that I carry in stock. I have shoes for all the Penton and KTM bikes.

I have had some challenges in the past few years in trying to keep these in stock. I am at the mercy of the suppliers and the manufacturer. They will only stock and make what sells. I was out of stock on shoes last year because my supplier did not have any in stock and there was a delay in getting Ferodo to ship because in ITALY almost the whole country shuts down in the summer for a month for vacation time.
There are several vintage bike brands for which shoes have been discontinued.


Alan Buehner

[tooclose racing]

Al - thanks for the update.  Good to know we can still get the "good stuff" for our bikes.  As for the Race Tech service, I am obsessed with good brake performance, but haven't hit the lottery yet.

Still wanna know - what kind of (metal)brake drum surface do you think works best with typical brake shoess - smooth or...less than smooth?

Thanks,

Bob Close

[454MRW]

I would suggest a final sanding finish with no finer than 320 grit sandpaper. Otherwise It would be like a glazed rotor on a car, which is not desirable. Mike

Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1980 KTM 175-400'S
1975 Can Am 175 TNT & 77 250 Black Widow
1979 Husqvarna OR390
1976-78 RM & 77-79 PE Suzuki's
1974 CR250M 07 CR125R 79 CR250R

[tooclose racing]

Grabbed the 320 grit at my local hardware store, Mike.  Thanks.

[tomale]

Wow, kind of weird reading my old posts.  Several years ago I took my wheels to a local supplier specializes in custom brakes. He rebuilt my brake shoes. As part of the service he replaced the pads and then arched them.  Wow what a difference. I went from needing to use my whole hand to squeeze the lever to get it to stop to using two fingers.  Added benefit is the material looks like section of military uniform belt.  It allows water to flow through it so it works way better I. Wet conditions.

Thom Green,Still crazy after all these years!
76' 250 MC5 (orginal owner)
74' 1/2 440 maico
70' 400 maico (project)
72' cr125 Husky (project)
93' RMx 250 suzuki
Honda TL 125
2004 Suzuki DL1000