What is the first 1971/2 CMF

[firstturn]

I have owned several 1971/2 CMF 100/125 Pentons.  I think the earliest one I have seen was built in 106  or June 1971.  Anyone have any input on this subject?  Thanks.

Ron Carbaugh

[Paul Danik]

Greetings, If you go to Production Years on the Home Page and then look under Frame Numbers you will be able to see the collected frame numbers which will show that the earliest CMF machines had a build date of June of 1971 shown as 106 on the frames. I have posted the earliest numbers below.

   Discussions on this topic have concluded that the very earliest of the serial production CMF 100 / 125 machines would have a build date of June of 1971 and the very first serial production CMF machine would most likely have an actual production number of 50,000 or 50,001. Those conclusions were drawn from studying the collected numbers, not from any paperwork or input from someone who would have actual knowledge on the subject.

   If anyone has a CMF Sachs powered machine with a serial number lower that 10650167, that person can go to the top of the list as far as CMF Sachs powered machine production numbers go. If you have any of these machines sitting around, or even just bare frames, please check out the serial numbers as maybe that elusive 10650000 is sitting in your shed..... Surely something signed by The Man Himself, John Penton, can find its way to anyone coming up with either 10650000 or 10650001......

   Just for the record, as one scrolls down through the numbers below the first frame with a 7 prefix has a build date of 204, April of 1972, that is the earliest CMF Jackpiner listed in the list. For anyone not aware, when the first CMF Jackpiners were built, Penton / KTM used the existing CMF 100 / 125 frame with motor mounts built into it to allow for the installation of the KTM engine, those frames have a 7 prefix in their serial number to allow for easy identification of a KTM engine powered Jackpiner VS a Sachs powered CMF machine.

        106    50167    125
    106    50190    125
    106    50264    125
    108    50274    100-125 Frame
    106    50303    100-125 Frame
    106    50309    125
    107    50322    100-125 Frame
    108    50692    
    108    50713    100
    108    50750    125
    109    51140    125
    109    51336    125
    110    51494    125
    110    51547    125
    110    51679    125
    111    51860    125
    111    52040    125
    112    52229    125
    112    52319    125
    112    52423    125
    201    52593    125
    201    52707    125
    201    52722    125
    201    52729    100-125 Frame
    201    52807    100-125 Frame
    201    52810    100
    202    53074    125
    202    53090    125
    202    53091    125
    202    53316    125
    203    53831    125
    203    53927    125
7    204    54258    175

Hope this helps....
Paul

[Steve Minor]

Paul....How do I add my Six Day to the data base?
It's frame #203 53728..motor #7103503-6B.

Thanks

Steve Minor

[firstturn]

Thanks Paul.  Excellent post as always.  I was hoping to see if anyone had a number lower than 10650167?  Thanks for  adding the early Jackpiner information.

Ron Carbaugh

[slvrbrdfxr]

Yes, some good info in this thread for sure. If someone is updating the serial number list, please add a few that our family has. We have frames 10750621, 10850886 and 10951060. I bought the 10850886 frame and some misc parts off a Craigslist ad in Oberlin, OH during the trip to the POG 50th anniversary celebration a few years ago. I'm just about finished with a restoration on 10951060 which is a 125 Six Day purchased out of New Mexico back in 2008. By the numbers, it looks like the the factory was easily producing 300-400 CMF bikes a month during these early days.
Dave McCullough

[Paul Danik]

Steve, and others...
   
   Bill Smith is the man behind the frame number list and when I asked him about how to get the numbers to him he supplied me with the paragraph below from the POG website. Bill also said that he has some numbers that folks have sent him that he will be adding to the list in due time.

    It is safe to say that without the efforts of Bill much of the frame serial number information would never have been gathered, evaluated and listed. I remember years ago he and I discussed the frame numbers one evening, not long afterward he called with his evaluation of what the numbers meant, I guess you might say he cracked the code... It was an exciting time to be sure..... Below is the info from the POG website...

Below you will find hyperlinks to a Frame Number List and a Engine Number List.  These lists are comprised of numbers that I found on the old Bike Registry, those given to me by friends and some found on the POG message board.  In any case, I hope this allows you to enjoy our passion with even more interest and enthusiasm than ever before. If you do have numbers and would like them to be included on this list (your name will be kept confidential and not appear on the list), please email the information to [email protected]
  Be sure to include the full frame number and engine size if known. If you want to send your engine information, be sure to include the full engine number.


Thanks to all for suppling Bill with your frame / engine info, the more numbers that he has the more info can be deducted from the list. Hopefully very soon we will all be able to get back to a more "normal" life, before we all get ramped up lets get those frame numbers and get them off to Bill at
[email protected]

Paul

[Paul Danik]

Greetings, If you go to Production Years on the Home Page and then look under Frame Numbers you will be able to see the collected frame numbers which will show that the earliest CMF machines had a build date of June of 1971 shown as 106 on the frames. I have posted the earliest numbers below.

   Discussions on this topic have concluded that the very earliest of the serial production CMF 100 / 125 machines would have a build date of June of 1971 and the very first serial production CMF machine would most likely have an actual production number of 50,000 or 50,001. Those conclusions were drawn from studying the collected numbers, not from any paperwork or input from someone who would have actual knowledge on the subject.

   If anyone has a CMF Sachs powered machine with a serial number lower that 10650167, that person can go to the top of the list as far as CMF Sachs powered machine production numbers go. If you have any of these machines sitting around, or even just bare frames, please check out the serial numbers as maybe that elusive 10650000 is sitting in your shed..... Surely something signed by The Man Himself, John Penton, can find its way to anyone coming up with either 10650000 or 10650001......

   Just for the record, as one scrolls down through the numbers below the first frame with a 7 prefix has a build date of 204, April of 1972, that is the earliest CMF Jackpiner listed in the list. For anyone not aware, when the first CMF Jackpiners were built, Penton / KTM used the existing CMF 100 / 125 frame with motor mounts built into it to allow for the installation of the KTM engine, those frames have a 7 prefix in their serial number to allow for easy identification of a KTM engine powered Jackpiner VS a Sachs powered CMF machine.

        106    50167    125
    106    50190    125
    106    50264    125
    108    50274    100-125 Frame
    106    50303    100-125 Frame
    106    50309    125
    107    50322    100-125 Frame
    108    50692    
    108    50713    100
    108    50750    125
    109    51140    125
    109    51336    125
    110    51494    125
    110    51547    125
    110    51679    125
    111    51860    125
    111    52040    125
    112    52229    125
    112    52319    125
    112    52423    125
    201    52593    125
    201    52707    125
    201    52722    125
    201    52729    100-125 Frame
    201    52807    100-125 Frame
    201    52810    100
    202    53074    125
    202    53090    125
    202    53091    125
    202    53316    125
    203    53831    125
    203    53927    125
7    204    54258    175

Hope this helps....
Paul

[Steve Minor]

Paul....How do I add my Six Day to the data base?
It's frame #203 53728..motor #7103503-6B.

Thanks

Steve Minor

[firstturn]

Thanks Paul.  Excellent post as always.  I was hoping to see if anyone had a number lower than 10650167?  Thanks for  adding the early Jackpiner information.

Ron Carbaugh

[slvrbrdfxr]

Yes, some good info in this thread for sure. If someone is updating the serial number list, please add a few that our family has. We have frames 10750621, 10850886 and 10951060. I bought the 10850886 frame and some misc parts off a Craigslist ad in Oberlin, OH during the trip to the POG 50th anniversary celebration a few years ago. I'm just about finished with a restoration on 10951060 which is a 125 Six Day purchased out of New Mexico back in 2008. By the numbers, it looks like the the factory was easily producing 300-400 CMF bikes a month during these early days.
Dave McCullough

[Paul Danik]

Steve, and others...
   
   Bill Smith is the man behind the frame number list and when I asked him about how to get the numbers to him he supplied me with the paragraph below from the POG website. Bill also said that he has some numbers that folks have sent him that he will be adding to the list in due time.

    It is safe to say that without the efforts of Bill much of the frame serial number information would never have been gathered, evaluated and listed. I remember years ago he and I discussed the frame numbers one evening, not long afterward he called with his evaluation of what the numbers meant, I guess you might say he cracked the code... It was an exciting time to be sure..... Below is the info from the POG website...

Below you will find hyperlinks to a Frame Number List and a Engine Number List.  These lists are comprised of numbers that I found on the old Bike Registry, those given to me by friends and some found on the POG message board.  In any case, I hope this allows you to enjoy our passion with even more interest and enthusiasm than ever before. If you do have numbers and would like them to be included on this list (your name will be kept confidential and not appear on the list), please email the information to [email protected]
  Be sure to include the full frame number and engine size if known. If you want to send your engine information, be sure to include the full engine number.


Thanks to all for suppling Bill with your frame / engine info, the more numbers that he has the more info can be deducted from the list. Hopefully very soon we will all be able to get back to a more "normal" life, before we all get ramped up lets get those frame numbers and get them off to Bill at
[email protected]

Paul

[firstturn]

After checking my frames and bikes I own 10650167.  Thanks

Ron Carbaugh