Repetative Motions.......

[DKWRACER]

Not Pissed, just frustrated....still interested? read on....
Everytime I logon to Pog forum I am taken aside by the amounts of repeat questions. This forum, and it's members do a phenom of reponses which continue never ending, tireless. It draws from the wealth of a time honored tradition (sharing knowledge)....When I am in the company of other Venues, I keep hearing comments about our documentation, this becomes particularly annoying in the presence of a fellow competitor...
I feel at somewhat of a dis-advantage, yet comfortable in what we know..
My dreams, to this day, are to purchase a book, with every piece of information we have gathered in the last few years...
Pentons and their history are/must be documented in living color, is this not too much to ask of the Penton Owners Group. I first the motion at the next board meeting, in abstensia...

[Doug Wilford]

Tom;
There are enough POG board members that look at the forum, and I hope they see your motion.    The following is only my views and not that of any others.    To write a book of information about the history of Penton it would have to include John.   "John Penton and the Off Road Revolution" does a great job in that department, there could even be a volume II.  It would take a library of volumes to put in writing all that has been or will be said in this forum.  Besides categorizing and indexing into different volumes, how would you pull out the information you were looking for.  Service manuals have been written for all models.  This is a good topic for discussion.

[firstturn]

Tom
  Let me see if I understand your premise.  You are frustrated when other people of other brands of motorcycles comment on our documentation?  I guess I am missing something here.
  The forum is set up to help people to get questions answered, talk about topics and I guess anything else that comes along.  I use the search engine avaliable to track down subjects dicussed.  Please read on.
  If we (Penton Owners Group) want to pay someone to download the info on to a CD(or just download to your own souce) ever year or when ever and offer it to the members it would have to be a project that would have to be funded by money from POG.  If that is a clear request you have send a letter of your wishes to the directors, if you are talkin about a book that is a different matter.
  Thanks Tom for bring this subject up because here I GO.  People who contribute to this message board should first try to decide which direction they should go with a subject.  Confused, I am.  There are only two directions - For Sale or Wanted or The Forum.  I am always somewhat put off by someone asking a question on the For Sale side that has nothing to do with that message board.  REASON; try to use the search engine for a subject that was on the For Sale side and it was a Technical Question.
  Moving on; Thanks for having THE BEST SITE and the Best PEOPLE that make this such a success.

   
 


Ron Carbaugh

[CWilson]

I like the idea of reference books pertaining to our beloved Pentons.  Information not included in service manuals could be present in a reference book(s).  Would it be possible for some of the Penton guru's to put together a series of videos showing us how to perform some of the maintenance tasks?  Perhaps one showing how to replace sheared Sachs selector keys without splitting the cases and/or transmission adjustments.  Others could show fork seal replacement or jetting or ...?  Most but not all of the above can be found in a service manual.  I would benefit greatly if I could watch a pro do some of these tasks.  A picture is worth a thousand words; a dvd/video showing the above-  100,000 words!

Craig Wilson

[rob w]

Everyone has questions about these bikes, and this forum always provides a PERSONAL WRITTEN solution or answer to anyone's requested question or problem. That's what makes it great!. Not only does it help to solve peoples problems, it also contains the factor of HUMAN CONTACT, which can lead to more meaningful things like meeting great people which become freindships.
 Reference books (or folders) would be nice, but again I look at the size of the targeted market, there's not that many of us. It would have to be another "labor of love" project for someone, lot's of time and some money spent without much of a return.
I never get bored finding out "what color do I paint my Jackpiner", or "what size main jet does a 400 use", for me, it proves there's on-going activity and interest happening, I'd rather see new comers jump in here than to pick up a manual and read about it on their own.

There is one book that I think needs to be written and published, and that is a complete race history of the Penton motorcycle and it's riders. From the first day to the last, of the top name riders who rode and competed on Pentons. National to national, year to year, though-out the ten year history, also including lots of personnal accounts and their epic stories. That's what I would enjoy to read.

Babble'n Bob

[tomale]

OK, I quess I will jump in. Add my two cents worth. I have been enjoying this forum for a little more than a year. It has been a constant source of information and enjoyment.
One of my constant frustrations is how little information is in the manuals that I do have. I have yet to see a Manual that is specifically for my bike. At best it is for earlier Pentons with a few pages added to the end that sort of cover my bike. The information is scant at best. There is always things that can not be covered by a manual. I know this and so my frustration is kept at bay. What makes it all work is the fact that I can come to a place like this and get the "human contact". they may not know exactly what the problem is but at least they have a few really good ideas. It has been the differance between me being able to ride and selling it off to the first guy that comes along. Frankly, if it was not for this forum I would not be riding now, at all. There are I am sure alot of guys just like me who are in the same boat. I once asked if there were any other Penton riders that live near me. What I found was that the closest was 2 hundred miles away. I am gratful for that, Big Jon has been a constant source of encouragment to me. There are no vintage shops in the area and when I tell the local shops what I have they give me that "Deer in the head light look" One shop asked if I would bring it in just so they could take a look at it... that was fun. I love having something that you can not find just anywhere...
I would love it if I had a compulation of information on some of the things that you will not find in any manual for my bike and I am sure that others would too. Some of that could not have been even possible when my bike first came out. It has been discovered in the course of riding these wonderful bikes by folks alot smarter than me. Putting them on a CD or DVD is a great idea and is alot less expensive than publishing a book.  Maybe the way to handle it is to divide it up Some of you guys are amazing when it comes to the inter workings of a Sachs motor. So some one take that, Maybe some one else is really up on early KTM motors so they could take that on. If several guys took it upon them selves to compile the information of any given model and then loaded onto a disc complete with pictures, I think everyone would benifit. None the less this forum serves in a way that no other manual or what ever, could ever do. I often read and re read topics that may not address something I am dealing with but what I find is some one will say something off hand that I was wondering about but could not put into words. I glean alot of information just that way. Besides just because we are talking about.... say jetting for a 36 bing carb does not mean that it will work the same for everyone. As many of you know no bike is just like any other bike even if it is the same bike and the numbers are sequential. It all depend on how healthy the motor is, what has been done to it, who has worked on it, where is it being riden, who has riden it and who will ride it. We could have two bikes side by side on the same day on the same track and the jetting may not be the same. It may be very close but not the same.
I think encouraging new members to use the search mode is a good idea. I don't know about you but the more information I have about a given subject the more comfortable I am at diving into it. If I know that I can come to some place like this and find an answer when I get stuck is futher re-assuring. Maybe some of you guys in ohio and back east have forgotten what it is like to look in from the outside and stand in amazment as we view the wonders that come from being in a community of fellow penton riders who you get to ride and race with on a regular basis. Maybe it is no big deal to you but to us on the outside.... this is our only lifeline.
I have been helped so much and I am humbled by the men and women who have taken the time to listen to what I am struggling with and look for the solution that gets my bike back on the trail. I am gratful beyond words. The only thing I know to do is continue to visit this forum on a regular basis and contribute what little information I have.
I do not want to kiss anybodies feet but neither do I want to pass this off as nothing either.
I wish I had the know how to compile the information on each and every model but alas I do not. I find it amazing that I can even use the computer at all. thanks to my wife who dragged me into this world. It has become one of my most important tools I own. Once my shop is finally built I am planning on setting up a computer just to keep track of all of my projects and the information that I am gleaning. I am sure that my wife will be dragged in to help with that.  
Your reluctant contributor, Thom

Thom Green,I own and ride a 76 250 MC5 MX which I bought new.

[DKWRACER]

The first cut is the deepest, usually raw, and most important, from the depths of the heart...It was not my intention to issue challenges which cannot be met. History has already proven failure in that respect. I actually did a "search" on the keyword "Sachs" there were 31 pages of info to browse. Perhaps I could view each and everyone and glean. I realize that this is a Forum and not a database. What was most impressive to me is the fact that there are wishes for this group; and those wishes and values continue today...
Thanks Guys.....

[Paul Danik]

The collection and documentation of information about the Penton motorcycles and the people involved with them is part of the focus of the Penton Future Project committee. The mission of the PFP can be accessed from the POG homepage.  The committee has already begun brainstorming on methods of achieving it's mission, and will present it's recommendations to the POG board and will then begin it's work as directed by the board.
     This is a very large undertaking and will possibly be ongoing for a number of years.  There are suggestions for a book on the "Steel Tank  Penton Era", then of course the "CMF Penton Era", ect, as well as many other excellent ideas.  There are however several limiting factors involved.  One factor is expense, all I can say here is if you enjoy the website and what all is going on to please support the POG with your continued membership. The other factor is people power, just as important as it is to accomplish the PFP goals, it is just as important to not run all the mules into the ground.
     Soooooooooo, keep those ideas coming, support your group, and have fun with your Pentons.  Hope to see you at the Penton Day At The AMA.
Paul

[rd400pi]

OK, here's my thud to the carcass of "repetative motions".  Just like Tomale, I have been into the Penton thing for a year now.  I remember them from my days as a long haired, Jap bike thrashing teen in the 70's.  Only the men with real jobs could afford the Euro Iron.  Now that I have two jobs, I decided to have a Penton, by god.  I read these posts constantly and learn something EVERY time I log on.  It would be great to have some central clearinghouse of real-world, non-manual tech data/first hand experiences.  No doubt it is a thankless task to come up with the libraries and CDs we are talking about.  Unfortunatly, I don't see how the future Penton project can be anything other than a bunch of work, really.  Is it possible to attempt something modest at first like putting all the original "Keeping Track" newsletters on a CD(s)for purchase?  These would be invaluable to all of us "lone operators" scattered all over the world.  I would love to help out with an endeavor like that or something related to the Future Penton project but how can I help?  I have some magazine tests that could be scanned into a database but, that's about it.  I intend to post photos about my rebuilds somewhere but, my progress is painfully slow.  I probably should apologize now for heaving another grenade into the fracas but, what the heck, this is why we are here.  Warts and all.

     RD400pi

Mike Husted
72&74 SixDays
76 MC5 250

[tomale]

If I have offended anyone... please forgive this fat old racer. It was not my intention to anger anyone. Some times I get a little passionate about things. I might have been a bit over the top. Open mouth and insert MX Boot. I am not sure what I can do but If I can be of some help please let me know. Many hands make light work. What ever information That I might have has either come from this forum or a manual that I picked up with in the last year. I never did have an original manual. They were none to be had. I know I looked and asked everyone who could have possible been in the know. The shop that I bought the bike from did not even have a single bike on the show room floor. I had to order it sight un seen. If I needed anything It had to be ordered from the distributor. Half the time that did not work too well either. All the time I was racing I only knew of one other guy that had a bike like mine and he did not even live in the area. I ran into him a few times at the races. What information that I did get with the bike was lost. Rather it was destroyed when the basement where I was storing such things was flooded. I even lost my copy of Ake Jonsons book. Such is life.
Keep the tank side up,

Thom Green,I own and ride a 76 250 MC5 MX which I bought new.

[firstturn]

Thom,
I  for one don't think you have offened anyone and yes I think your opinion is as important as anyone else that writes into the Forum.  You at least we smarter than most and kept you original Penton.  Now if you could turn back the clock and let me find any of my original Pentons I would be happy.

Ron Carbaugh

[tomale]

If I could turn back the clock I would in a heart beat. I like my life very much and I doubt I would change very much but if I could I would have never sold a few bikes. Like maybe that 1969 Montesa Cappra 360 that I owned. I bought it from the guy that bought it new for 400 bucks. According to Southwest montesa there were only 200 of those babies ever made. If I could find that bike it would be way more money that I could come up with. I went from a Suzuki 90 to that Montesa. I was 5'3" and weighed about a 120 pounds or so. That bike was so big and so fast it was a rush just to turn the trottle. It wipped me around like a rag doll. but boy was it fun. It probably did not have anymore power than my Penton does but at 120 pounds It felt like I was strapped to a rocket. The rest of the bikes Well Maybe 73 Elsinor 250 I bought new and was the first bike I ever won a race on. As for the rest, well lets just say they are history. Sorry boys there are other bikes in the world but I still love that Penton of mine. It still turns heads at the races. And I am leading the points series against guys 15- 20 years younger. They just can not figure out how that fat old man can go so fast. well all things are relative, aren't they. I am no match for most of you guys. just an old guy enjoying his golden years. Thanks for the encouragment!
Keep the tanks side up and on the gas!





Thom Green,I own and ride a 76 250 MC5 MX which I bought new.