Interesting Racing Stories

[TGTech]

On the regular Penton Talk forum, there is a thread about fuel's, and on there I posted a storie about KTM taking top end's and pipes that Carl Cranke had built. Here are the stories.

One was in the early 1970's when Carl built a 250 for Buck Murphy that he rode at a motocross at Daytona, prior to when it was actually a Supercross. Buck's bike was so fast, that each moto, he got starts that gave him about 50'leads going into the first turn. After Buck beat Pierre Karsmakers, Mr. Trunkenpolz demanded that Carl take the top end and pipe of the bike, so that they could take it back to Austria.

The second time, was after the ISDT it England in 1975. The final test at the ISDT, was usually a road race, and in that event, the MZ's from East Germany, were normally the fastest machines in the event. There were also a couple of Jawa's that were damn fast, but the MZ's usually ruled. In '75, Carl blew them away with his 350, the top end and pipe which he'd brought there, from "home". Again, KTM appropriated the top end and the pipe to take back to the factory, so that the engineers could study what Carl had done to them, to make them so fast.

At the Penton Owner's Group meeting in February at the AMA, I recounted the story of Carl and I building my 1976 Six Day bike. That  bike was the best Penton that I every rode. It had a power band like an electric motor and still had plenty of power to do everything I wanted to do with a 175.

Dane

[Chakka]

I've read about Carl's tuning tallents in my old copy's of "Keeping Track". With the vintage racing craze and the strength of this group I wonder if there is a market for race porting to Sachs and KTM Engines. Carl could have a little side business making those Penton's fly again.

Chris

[tlanders]

I just spent money two years in a row having J.P. Morgen port and add reed valves to two of my Pentons. What we, the Penton racing community, are missing is a good pipe source. I know the guys who are racing would LOVE to buy "speed pipes". I bought an NOS Carl Cranke Hi Point Speed Pipe a couple years ago and it turned my 250 Hare Scrambler into a hole shot king!!!

Teddy

[firstturn]

Teddy,
  I feel that Circle K pipes in Houston will build anything we want, but we need to provide them a pattern and BUY PIPES.  To be truthful I get tired of hunting up people to build pipes, port cylinders, paint and supply parts when people don't use these sources.  A great example of my comment is just last week a person who made a special price to our group was countered with the person even wanting more of a discount.  The only reason I won't mention the persons name is that I wasn't told who it was.

  Teddy, this isn't aimed at you because I know how you support the cause, but bikes just like fishing boats or other forms of recreation aren't cheap.  Just my take.

Ron Carbaugh

[john durrill]

Ron,
 We have the pipe specs Carl sent out for 100/250 / 400 Pentons for 72 to 75 bikes in the library. The only rub is you need a non modified stock pipe to build them from. Then the pipe builder needs a frame with enough componets on it to make sure the pipe will fit.
 Anyone that has built a pipe from tubing and cones would understand that a pipe made by someone like Circle K is cheap compared to the time and price for materials one spends making a pipe up from scratch. Just the pre-shaped materials are expensive. We built a Carl Crank 100 pipe for a POG member last summer. We used a 125 Sixday pipe that was missing the rear shroud. We ordered a new center secton, the rear cone and stinger.  We used my sons 72 125 to fit the pipe and it took the better part of a day to finish it. It was $78 for just those three pieces and a 6 week wait. A $200 to $300 pipe that fits is a deal for limited runs on a bike that is no longer in production. I dont understand why its hard for folks to see that.
 Just my 2 cents grumble , grumble , grumble!


John & Peter D.

[Chakka]

If getting correct drawings to fabricators, pipe or otherwise, is a problem I can volunteer my services. I have been a mechanical designer for 20+ years and also have a staff of guys that can slip in an occational "government project". I just finished drawings for the style VDO mount that clamps to the crossbar. I need to get the dwgs to a fabricator now. Some other parts I have been hot to try and copy are centerstands for 175-400 bikes, old style speedo mount & the Gem reed valve for Sachs engines. A racing pipe would be an excellent part to model in 3D, the model can be tweeked for correct fit and performance increases.

Chris

[firstturn]

John,
  You never Grumble you just tell it the way it is.

Chris,
  The services you offer are VERY GOOD, but I am out of the loop on all the items that I or you mentioned.  

The Point:  When I want something now I either track it down or have it made and really don't take the time to have someone sit up a jig for future production.  I am too busy and OLD to get in the business and listen to someone tell me they can do it for less money.[8D]

Ron Carbaugh

[Big Mac]

On the subject of pipes and demand, I know someone (Tom Brosius?) had Andy at Ace hooked up with a '77 250 pipe (I believe) and now that pipe is added to his product list, at a very reasonable less than $200 price as I recall. I checked w/ Andy about same pipe, maybe in 400 sizing, with setup w/ rear section for silencing/baffling as with the original GS6. Again, doable by Andy, just needs a model.

If someone can do with a loan of a Carl Cranke pipe to Andy or Circle F, seems it should be a cinch. By the way, we bought a '75 GS6 400 here in the NW off Ebay, and within 5 minutes of auction ending, were offered $300 for the pipe alone from someone in Europe. Between Europe and Australia, the demand should be there.
Mac

[Chakka]

Mac - $200...That's an oustanding price for a pipe when you consider materials and time. Well worth it. I didn't see that Carl ever did pipe diagrams or porting specs for Sachs bikes 100 - 125.

Ron - Unfortunatly you never get away from people like that. I used to own a hobby store and I lost count of the people who would come in, say "I bought that at Walmart and saved 2 dollars, now how do I paint it?"

[firstturn]

Chris,
  Thanks.  I have hunted down parts, bikes and engines for people only to tell me that was too expensive or that they changed their mind.  Oh well it is just a hobby and a Great one at that.


Ron Carbaugh

[bildough]

Thanks to Ron,

Kevin at Circle F made me 2 of the most lethal looking, sounding and yes; best performing pipes i have ever had the pleasure to mount on my berkies and six days.  They are made from Crankes specs. At every race people comment on the bikes and the pipes. I am proud to say that Kevin at Circle F made them and that my friend Ron Carbaugh was able to get the pipes produced for me. Its people like Ron that make this group and this sport so much fun. If you need to ask what it cost dont waste your time? If you want a great product just belly up to the bar and pay the price. The quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten.

Bill Cappel

[cubfan1968]

Bill, whats this new pipe do for your bike?

Rod Whitman
1972 6 Day (Rider)
1972 6 Day (Project)

[wolfmanonapenton]

I've got a two piece aluminum ,cone welded Banke pipe polished and super trick original aftermarket Penton 100-125 pipe for the72-75 sachs pentons that clamps together?with an original stinger thats repackable with two sheet metal screws holding endcap on are these pipes worth reproducing,told would make a sachs powerd Penton Rev an extra 5Gran is this True? mine is NOS it would be a great one to reproduce from?wolfman![8D]