Defending Wolfmanonapenton.

[deek]

Is that it on the back of Junes Vintage Views??

Dale

[wolfmanonapenton]

Terry, has asked that I leave the disclosure of the photos of the prototype up to him,contact Terry"thanks Bob the wolfman"[)]

[wolfmanonapenton]

No"thats a Ktm fourstroke,painted up!Terrys bike is in a league of its own!Bob"what a bike"[^]

[Larry Perkins]

I don't write on here much anymore because I don't always agree with the direction things go but I feel the need to speak on this thread.  I probably am coming into this in the middle and don't know all of the arguement that has occurred previously.  If so forgive my ignorance.  

I don't know Terry or Wolfman but surely you guys can see why people would be skeptical.  My Grandfather once told me that if it is too good to be true it probably is.  With very few exceptions in my life this statement has been true.  A motorcycle better than todays and more affordable is a hard row to hoe.  When John had his dream built it was better than most of the bikes available but it was not inexpensive and that was 1967 dollars.

I have been personally involved in several prototype projects as a racer and test rider including the early racing of Horst Lightner's AMP full suspension bicycle when racing for Mongoose.  Protos are wrought with glitches and that season I broke two of Horst's bikes in half downhill racing, one of which was at the 1994 World Championships while going 50mph.  

In recent years a company named Cannondale tried to build the better mousetrap and came up with one of the most innovative designs in a generation.  It was mega expensive to bring to reality and had numerous glitches that eventually brought a multi-million dollar company to it's knees.  The owner lost his fortune, his very successful bicycle company was lost to investors, and the motorcycle company went banrupt.

A company named ATK recognized that for a few pennies on the dollar they could buy the research and design that had cost millions.  They then spent more money and two years of testing to bring the new ATK to reality.  They now are facing some more harsh realities in that to build this innovative bike in America they must have more funding.  They are partnering with the Chinese to build cheap copy bikes to sell in their dealerships to add funds to continue these bikes.  They do have a very innovative design.  We sell these bikes and I raced one part of last season.  I and ATK are seeing also that no matter how innovative the design it is hard to sway the masses away from the OTHERS.

So the bottom line is even with an innovative design, almost unlimeted funds, and all the best of intentions failure is found easier on this path than success.

I would love to see this find success.  Hey I am an ATK dealer.  It seems if you guys want these guys to fall in line and be gung ho about this project then being open about details is the road to go.  Post pics and exact details here on the POG and people will be won over if this is real.  If it is real and it is called a Penton I think most will fall in line.  If not the majority will see the smoke and mirrors as BS.  Surely you realize that even with supporters failure is more likely than success and you will spend millions either way.  For me I will give you the benefit of the doubt but I do live in Missouri and it is the Show Me state.[?]

Larry P

[Rocket]

Larry P.
Very well said.
Rocket

[rob w]

I also believe this topic is of the utmost importance, and I won't let it slide without adding my two cents.
 To me the issue is not about Mr. Everett's possible new motorcycle, and it's design. The issue I have, is entirely about it's entity.
I think it's only right to ask permission from the Penton family to name your motorcycle, and yourself "PENTON".
 I have to believe any decent person would want their blessing before following through with the plans of calling some new creation a "PENTON" motorcycle.
 They worked most of their lives towards something, that should'nt have been stolen from them - their good name!
 I think without their support, and if their not behind this - I could certainly never support it either.
In fact why would anyone think of calling their machine a "PENTON", if they did'nt have the support of even the "PENTON OWNERS GROUP" ?
Alot of people should have some say in what happens here.
 I guess people fought for years to obtain the name of the Indian Motorcycle, they spent oodles, it was'nt accepted, and down they went.
The new Hendersen/Excellsior Motorcycle a few years ago was another failure. Their dreams became jokes.
Should an outsider really roll the dice, and jeopardize the legendary PENTON family name and history - and effect the already excellent following of the old PENTON motorcycle.
 I say no, please leave the PENTON name off of any new motorcycle.
But if Mr. Penton and some others say it's cool with them, then I may rethink my opinion.
 Terry, please don't take this as any kind of a personal attack. I sincerely think it's cool you have yours hands into developing your own new machine. I only hope you reconsider the name you're about to slap on the tank. Please call it anything other than a "PENTON", somehow I just don't see that working out for all concerned parties.
 
So anywho, that's what I've got to say tonight. I don't think my opinion is out-of-line, and I hope I don't receive any death threats over it.
In the old POG forum days, guys seemed to get more involved in what was happening around here. I can see that's fading..........?

Rob W    
 

   







 

[Jeff D]

I have to agree with Larry and Rob on their respective takes on this.  I don't know Rob, but I know Larry's a savvy guy who's been around the block more than once and has been involved in Penton motorsports for decades.  I value his 2 cents worth much more than a mere two pennies.  If this super bike is for real, then show us what it's all about.  Yeah, being hard-core bikers, we'll nit-pick it to death, but isn't it better to have it done now and get the bugs out first rather than have it die a miserable death on the open market?  Something to think about.
I wholeheartedly agree with Rob that BEFORE you put the name Penton on anything, you'd better have the full support of Mr. Penton.  I don't even care about copyrighting or trademarking or patenting or any of that stuff.  To me it is a matter of respect, and in my eyes if it has John Penton's name on it and doesn't have his personal endorsement, it's crap and I won't spend a nickel on it.  Simply put, John Penton would never endorse anything that wasn't top quality.  You get his endorsement, you get my attention.  Use his name without permission, and I guarantee you won't find any buyers from this group of riders.  Nuff said.

Jeff DeBell

[Big Mac]

Guys, I say we relax and take a look-see. Pass me the Bong so I can get a big ol' hit first, then send on them pics of the newfangled wunder-bike so I can get my checkbook out to make a deposit.

(liability disclosure...drugs will burn out your brain and no one smart enough to own a Penton would ever really consider using anything stronger than Tylenol)

[thrownchain]

I'll add in my two pennies. Just because it has the Penton name on it doesn't make it a PENTON. Take a look at Indian, Henderson, Norton and even Triumph. Triumph being the only one to come back to life, { so far } and this isn't your fathers Triumph. New bike from the ground up, and has taken a long time to rebuild it's fan base. Most profitable being the retro line up.
I agree that Mr Penton should be in on this at some level, and maybe someone might ask his opinion of this whole idea. Give the rest of us a firm platform to make a decision on.  Make sense??

[lksseven]

I think Wolfman, Jay, Justin and Terry, aka Sybil (to save some keystrokes) should name their make-believe bike 'Unicorn', after another mythical creature.
   

Just for the sake of argument, even if a new bike was actually produced, it's beyond my imagination that the Penton family wouldn't immediately sue to prevent the new bike from being named a 'Penton'.  No one else should be able to use their name, for Goodness sake.   The very idea makes me ill.  And beyond that, Penton is more than a family name - it's a word that captures a concept, a time in history, a spirit, a community of like-minded dreamers and doers.   For me, it's a word alongside 'Camelot', except it actually went from an 'idea' to reality - thanks to John Penton - and we've been lucky enough to see it, touch it, and be a part of it.  

I guess someone could legally change his name to Willie Mays, but he ain't gonna play in 24 All-Star games, and he won't be making The Catch in deep centerfield at The Polo Grounds against Vic Wertz and the Indians in the '54 World Series, and he won't inspire people to write songs about him or bring grown men to tears at the majesty of his art.  Some things only happen once.  I think most of us here 'get that'.

On the other hand, I personally find multiple personalities to be entertaining (up to a point), so spin your tale as you wish, Sybil.



Larry Seale
I choose to ride

[sachsmx]

Will the REAL Terry Everett/Wolfmanonapenton/Mototech51/Jay Jones please step forward. I find this all very strange[8D] I have tried to stay out of this fray and all the other issues that seem to surround Terry, but it has now gone too far. Why don't you call this mythical new motorcycle Hodaka or something?

[Tennessee Vol]

I have tried to stay out also,But the very first post in this thread attacked some of the people I respect,I do not appriceate that.Why not just put you commet/product out there for us to make a opinion.Instead of speaking in code and smoke and mirriors.

 But when the last wolfman post said the pic on the back vintage views was only a painted up KTM.

Code Select Expand

Then he stated there bike was in a class of it own.[?][?]

 Anyone can get a bike from Europe and slap their stickers on it.Look at Beta---Ktm sell them the 450 engine and Beta puts it in their frame.

 There was a guy here in the south that tried to sell a bike about 3 years back.It was a Alpha 2-stroke from Europe.He said it was his own design and even put his name on the radiator shrouds.Then he convinced a few riders was working on all kind of parts accesiories etc.He sold a couple to some riders and they rode them very well and won a class championship in a enduro series.

 Then bam!! next year (POOF) never heard of the bike again.I love the different exotic bikes as much as the next rider.This is America and the land of free enterprise---speech---and the freedom to do pretty much anything you can dream up.If this all is true best of luck Terry.

 But if you are a rider and want to jump on this bandwagon you better be ready for the ride.

 Everyone needs to read Super Hunkeys article in last months edition of Dirt Rider Magazine.He is writing again for Dirt Rider now.It really hits close to the subject we are discussing here.

 Sachsmx please don't give any ideas on Hodakas I like them and race them.[][]



Bobby Stults

[pketchum]

quote:Originally posted by sachsmx Why don't you call this mythical new motorcycle Hodaka or something?

As a Hodaka owner I resent that remark!

Phast Phil
Moderator, Hodaka Owners Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hodaka

[454MRW]

I have nothing against Terry and the desire to be able to buy a "Brand New" Penton motorcycle, although to my knowledge there weren't any 4 strokes marketed by JP.
If Terry wants to gain the respect of Penton enthusiasts and help to encourage the growth of a legend, I suggest he tries what most of us are already doing and enjoying.
Rebuilding/restoring less than new, neglected and incomplete, worn in but not worn out, Pentons that are readily available and realitively inexpensive, and offer them for sale for a reasonable price to those who can't either afford to do it their selves, or haven't the time or experience to rebuild a motorcycle, but would love to be a part of the Penton excitement and legendary history.
Well, so much for my 2 cents...Mike


Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating neglected
1974 250 HS-1980 250'S

[Frosty]

Wow,Haven't been to the board in a while.Seems I'm missing out on all the fun.I would hope that any talk of a new bike with a legends name on it (PENTON) would at least have the blessing of the original owner of the company.If I was creating a new motorcycle I would want to put MY name on it.But I bet too many people wouldn't buy a Frosty.So what would be the harm in calling it a name that everyone knows as being a quality product.Plenty, I don't think putting the Penton name on this new bike would be such a good idea.If your proud of the motorcycle that you've put together (and you should be,sounds like a lot of work to me) call it anything you want but please have the blessing of Mr. Penton before you use his good name.If your trying to sell this to people that know this brand I don't think this crowd will go for that.If you want to sell it to younger buyers that don't even know that Mr. Penton WAS the start of KTM the Penton name won't mean anything to them (sad) anyway.This is something to consider before the name is put on any product.I'd really like to see a picture of this new bike though.This is just my 2 cents worth on this subject.