77 KTM identification

[paint785]

I was wondering if anyone in the group could give some help in identifying my KTM. I purchased this bike from a local guy back in the early 90's and was told that it was one of the first KTM's ever sold in the US and that the bike was originally desert raced.

It's a 250 MC5. It has the rather tall blue tank with the name KTM on the side. It's the same tank I see on the 77 European GS models on that italian vintage KTM website.

It has a silver frame with the dull gold leading axle forks.

It's engine number is 75413383.

It's frame number is 55005471.

I have documentation showing that it was first sold May 20th 1977 to William Gillbert residing at the time in Santa Ana, California.

I guess my question is was this bike one of the first KTM's sold in the US or was it an european import?

I do believe that the tank and side panels are original.

Anyway, any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Chris

[Rain Man]

Chris, welcome to the Penton Owners Group Web site, I don't have an answer for you, but I bet someone will...

Raymond
 Down East Pentons

[Mike Lenz]

I also would like to clear up this blue KTM thing. I purchased a 77 400 mc-5 from CA and it was also blue, had the big tank on it. I know from mag tests that in 76 the 250 and 400 mc-5's were red, and white out west. Also in 77 Penton at least had the gs-6. Was that not sold out west and KTM sold the mc-5 with the big tanks for enduro or desert racing, in blue??

[peter kane]

Chris, ditto on the welcome.  Did you look at the Production Year Guide listed on the home page.  Check it out.  You may also wish to check out the Search feature above - it's very powerful and will probably bring you a few answers.  You'll most likely get a bunch of responses to your query - sit tight, but read the board as much as you can.  There is some very interesting stuff that you can learn a lot from.  And don't be afraid to ask what you may think is a stupid or obvious question - I do it all the time and these good natured folks always come up with my answer!  Just watch me! [8D]

Peter Kane
V3442
Plainville, Massachusetts
[email protected]

[tomale]

Welcome, Paint.
The first KTM's to be sold in America as KTM's was 76. Although, I have seen a 75 with KTM on the tank. Get the John Penton book, it will shead alot of light on the whole subject. All of the Penton Motorcycles were assembled At KTM. My 76 came with Penton painted on the back of the seat, but had been removed before I bought it. In the bright sunlight when the bike was still new you could still see the remains of the Penton name. Mike is right about the colors. In 76 the 125's and 250's were Red. And I think the 400's were white. In 77 They were all either Red on the west cost and Orange on the east. I believe the GS models starting in 77 were blue. My buddy Mac has one.
Your bike is a 77 250. The blue indicates that it is a GS model. It should be a six speed. All of the KTM motors were Six speeds but the MC5 models came with 1st gear blocked out. As I understand, Mr. Penton wanted a bike for the American market that could do all things well. So having a six speed is a reflection of that philosophy. 1st gear is a granny gear and allows you to do tight woods stuff, on the motocross course it is not needed but it does not get in the way either. Pulll the light, change the pipe and you are ready to motocross, put them back on and you are ready to do an enduro the next week. And it can be done in just a few hours. MR. Penton is one smart guy.

Thom Green,Still crazy after all these years!
76' 250 MC5 (orginal owner)
78' 400 MC5

[Rain Man]

Chris, welcome to the Penton Owners Group Web site, I don't have an answer for you, but I bet someone will...

Raymond
 Down East Pentons

[Mike Lenz]

I also would like to clear up this blue KTM thing. I purchased a 77 400 mc-5 from CA and it was also blue, had the big tank on it. I know from mag tests that in 76 the 250 and 400 mc-5's were red, and white out west. Also in 77 Penton at least had the gs-6. Was that not sold out west and KTM sold the mc-5 with the big tanks for enduro or desert racing, in blue??

[peter kane]

Chris, ditto on the welcome.  Did you look at the Production Year Guide listed on the home page.  Check it out.  You may also wish to check out the Search feature above - it's very powerful and will probably bring you a few answers.  You'll most likely get a bunch of responses to your query - sit tight, but read the board as much as you can.  There is some very interesting stuff that you can learn a lot from.  And don't be afraid to ask what you may think is a stupid or obvious question - I do it all the time and these good natured folks always come up with my answer!  Just watch me! [8D]

Peter Kane
V3442
Plainville, Massachusetts
[email protected]

[tomale]

Welcome, Paint.
The first KTM's to be sold in America as KTM's was 76. Although, I have seen a 75 with KTM on the tank. Get the John Penton book, it will shead alot of light on the whole subject. All of the Penton Motorcycles were assembled At KTM. My 76 came with Penton painted on the back of the seat, but had been removed before I bought it. In the bright sunlight when the bike was still new you could still see the remains of the Penton name. Mike is right about the colors. In 76 the 125's and 250's were Red. And I think the 400's were white. In 77 They were all either Red on the west cost and Orange on the east. I believe the GS models starting in 77 were blue. My buddy Mac has one.
Your bike is a 77 250. The blue indicates that it is a GS model. It should be a six speed. All of the KTM motors were Six speeds but the MC5 models came with 1st gear blocked out. As I understand, Mr. Penton wanted a bike for the American market that could do all things well. So having a six speed is a reflection of that philosophy. 1st gear is a granny gear and allows you to do tight woods stuff, on the motocross course it is not needed but it does not get in the way either. Pulll the light, change the pipe and you are ready to motocross, put them back on and you are ready to do an enduro the next week. And it can be done in just a few hours. MR. Penton is one smart guy.

Thom Green,Still crazy after all these years!
76' 250 MC5 (orginal owner)
78' 400 MC5

[rob w]

_______________
Penton sells western distribution
rights to KTM
_______________

LORAIN, OH., JUNE 20, 1975

 John Penton, in the form of a letter to his dealers in
western states, announced Friday the sale of western distribution
rights to KTM. Larry Maiers, Penton's general manager, informed
us that the motorcycles will no longer be sold in the western states
as Pentons, but will carry the KTM name.
 The complete text of John Penton's letter follows:

Negotiations have been finalized for the sale of the western
distribution rights of Penton/KTM parts and motorcycles.
The rights have been sold to the manufacturer of Penton cycles,
KTM of Austria. The reason for this is KTM's desire to not be
dependent upon one individual for U.S. sales.
 The effective date of transfer is July 1, 1975. It is
expected that KTM will announce a new distributor at that time.
 I have been assured by KTM that all existing Penton dealers
will be absorbed by the new KTM distributor. We will furnish
the new distributor a complete dealer listing from which you
will be contacted within a very few days.
 We are very thankful for the past considerations you have given
us. With your help the Penton name has been established across
the country as one of the finest dirt bikes available. I am
certain each of you will continue to work with the new distributor
to maintain what you have established.
 We will continue to service you with the Hi Point line of
competition accessories. In fact, with no cycles to worry about,
our West Coast emphasis will be 100% on further development of
our accessory line and distribution methods.
 Thank you again for your past business and friendship.
See you down the trail.   JOHN PENTON




This is a press release from a July 1, 1975 Cycle News.
Hope that it may clear up
some of the dates in question. I take the term "western states"
meaning those west of the Mississippi River. If anyone can tell
me if that assumption is correct or incorrect, please do.

B:)B

[Big Mac]

Your '77 250 KTM can be physically identified as a GS6 vs MC5 as '77 is the one year for the "turtle back" high breather frame and rear fender loop on the GS6. Under the tank, the GS6 frame member has a wide rounded backbone with breather holes. In addition to rear loop, also has two shock mount locations on the frame. MC5 has small square tubular backbone, one shock mount location and rear frame ends just behind seat bolts.

I've owned and taken apart several '77 MC5 motors and have yet to find one with 1st gear blocked out--all have been 6 speeds, so trans gears is not an indicator.

They apparently sold a good number of "KTM" branded 250s and 400s in the Pac NW in '75 and '76. No models after '74 that I've run across have had Penton branding on them.

Jon McLean
Lake Grove, OR