Time's running out, and it won't run

[OhioTed]

Tried firing my '72 Six-Day for the first time, today.  No luck so far.  It's a total, ground-up rebuild.  Everything is fresh, and I've got a brand new MZB ignition system in it.  

I made sure to grind down a clean spot on the frame, where the engine bolts up and where the coil mounts.  I also cleaned off a contact spot on the engine case.  

I've got spark, but it won't even cough.  I even tried starting fluid, just to see if I've got anything at all.  I'm running a Mikuni.

How critical is the timing?  I may not have it EXACTLY 2mm before TDC, but it's pretty darn close.  I just checked it.  

About that timing, I followed Dane's instructions and timed the mark on the flywheel with a chisel mark on the base plate.  There are other marks on the base plate, such as arrows and circles, written with red marker, but I went with the chisel mark.  Also, the base plate has concentric mounting holes.  Is is supposed to be adjusted to any particular point?  Dane's instructions are not specific in this regard.  My understanding is that timing is achieved totally by TDC and alignment of those chisel marks on the plate and flywheel.

Any suggestions?  I sure would like to have this thing running for the anniversary event.

                                   Ted

[Ernie Phillips]

Ted,  I've only installed one MZB so I not an expert but offer the following:

The elongated holes are for fine adjustments of timing so you don't have to pull the rotor back off to make minor timing changes.

The red marks that I remember had to do with orientation of the stator to stator mounting plate.  Since the stator has to be in the proper loction for the "chisel mark" to be correct.  There are 3 screws that locate the stator to stator mounting plate so you could be off 120 degrees if you moved the stator relative to the stator mounting plate.  From memory, there is a slot cut in the stator mounting plate where the wires come out of the stator and there is a an "X" mark to make sure you put the stator/stator mounting plate on correctly.  It seems like the stator plate chisel mark was on the OD of stator plate at one of the mounting holes and with the screw installed, it was very hard to see.

Viewed from the ignition side the engine rotates CW.  Rotate engine to TDC.  Back it up (rotate CCW) 2mm.  Install the rotor with rotor mark and chisel mark lined up.

Hot spark at correct time, fuel, compression -- it should run!

Hopefully Dane or someone else will chime in.  If you could post a photo of your installation maybe someone could tell by looking ...   -EP



Ernie P.
Chattanooga, TN

[Mike Lenz]

Look for really wierd stuff.  Are you sure the ex pipe is open and flowing air properly...sounds wierd but happened to me once, wasp nest in the pipe plugged it up.
Good luck
Mike

[OhioTed]

Thanks for the info, guys, but I'm still struggling with it.  Throughout all of last weekend I went over and over my assembly of the bike and installation of the MZB.  No luck.  I've got a nice, blue spark, and with the lights switched on, I've got a strong glow from the headlight when I kick it over.

I tried additional plugs, ran a supplemental ground wire, rechecked the carb, pipe, and in addition to spraying starter fluid in the carb opening, poured small amount of fuel down the plug.  I also tried push-starting it, for about a half mile.    

Still, not a cough or hiccup or anything.  Talked with Dane this morning and reviewed everything.  He suggested that I check the MZB to assure it was assembled with the correct stator.  I know that's far-fetched, but the fact that the bike will not give the slightest pop sure sounds like it is 180 degrees out of time.

[chuck]

I went through the same thing. Ended up the end of the exhaust pipe had too much carbon build up. Mike is right, it is often the wierd stuff.

Good luck

Chuck,


72 125 Six Days
74 250 Hare Scrambles
72 Wassel
74 125 Honda Elsinore
73 250 Honda Elsinore
74 175 Yamaha TY

[SouthRider]

Try pulling the head off & make sure that you didn't accidentally install the piston backwards.

This has happened to many people......

[OhioTed]

Thanks again for the tips, guys.  

The bike's pipe was a total rebuild.  I had it completely apart, cleaned, repaired, etc.

About that piston, though - I've put so many engines together that I can't remember what this one's piston looked like.  I got all my parts from Al Buehner, so I presume the piston is a Wiesco.  Do they have an arrow, or the word "front" cast into the top of the piston?  I would have looked for any kind of indication like that.  

If this ignition situation doesn't turn up to be the problem I'll pull the head.  Sure is a pain, though, as I'll have to take the pipe off.  Man, was it a pain to install - especially when you are trying to not scratch anything.

[firstturn]

Your piston should have an arrow on it.  Just remember the basics.  You need ignition (at the correct time), Air and a ignitor(with the correct mixture or starter fluid to test).  Sounds simple, but I have been tested and it can be hard.  Next I would try a carb that I know works or try this carb on another bike that you know runs.  I am trying to test the carb and the ignition system doing this.  As far as the pipe leave it off till you get this bike running and that eliminates another problem.

* There is one other thing that I would be aware of is that I have had good fire and it didn't fire under compression and/or the same problem was finally pinpointed to the marginal coil.  
* Also, a nice blue flame will work under no compression and it won't fire under compression and I have found a ground that wasn't the best.

I will wait to hear what you find.

Ron Carbaugh

[Richard]

From your first post you said that you were following Dane's instructions adn timing to a chisel mark. I have a MZ_B ignition on a Montesa and it timed to a red mark.

You may already have this information, but did you know that MZ-B has a web site with instructions for all their systems?

Try this link //www.powerdynamo.biz/eng/systems/7036/7036acinst.php

If that does not work look for the powerdynamo.bix site and look under products, then sachs.

Hope this helps.

Richard

[john durrill]

Ted,
 Check where the ign. is firing with a timing light.
 Use a battery from a car or boat and a clamp on Induction type light that any auto parts house has. That will tell you for sure when the ignition is firing. You will have to have an accurate mark on the flywheel and the engine case for this to work though . When the 2 marks line up the ignition should trigger.
 The suggestion on the light is from one of the rabid rodents
 You have friends wanting to help you dont even know about chuckle chuckle!
 What kind of carb do you have on? If it is a Mikuni and not run on the bike before you can have the jetting and slide mismatches add to the problem.
 If you have an old Bing you can slip on that's close to right it will start if the ign is doing its job.
 Did it run for you before the rebuild?
 John ( been where your at and its no fun ) D.
 

[Paul Danik]

I just talked to Ted and he had just gotten the bike to run.  He will post later telling what he found was the problem, but he asked me to let you guys know that the problem is solved.

Man was he happy..........

Paul