Data Base for Repro Parts

[BrianTaylor]

There has been some talk about a database to keep track of all the reproduced parts and who has them available so others wont be duplicating what has already been done.  This could be done easily by using the Penton yahoo groups restoration site . Yahoo provides a database file which is easy to use . I would set it up ( pay back for all the help I get here )if you let me know what fields of info would be useful. EG penton part number, description, source, email address. phone number , etc. I would also set it up so anyone could add info as parts come into production. I built a similar database on the Yahoo Rokon groups site that gives commercial  part numbers for the Rokon parts list  that were nondescriptive or not readily available. Any thoughts ... Brian Taylor

Brian Taylor

[vmx1963]

That would be a great idea Brian, I'm about to begin a resto job and I've been surprised at how much repo stuff is out there - the only problem is that it's in many different places on the web.  As long as the Penton community keeps the info up to date it would prove to be a great resource.

Now if only Al would put his Penton Parts onto a eCommerce website (complete with shopping cart) that would be magical  I've browsed the Newsletter at http://www.allcustomfab.com/penton/newl1.shtml so many times it's beginning to worry my wife!

That's my 20 cents worth anyway.

[LynnCamp]

I would second your offer to help.  I think that it is the very least these guys deserve for all of the hard work and good advice they give.  A good database application would provide a resource that would help avoid having y'all repeat yourselves over and over to us newcomers.  

My first thought is that I would prefer to keep the data on the POG site for both prestige (you're definitely the coolest [8D]) and the security of knowing the data is here and under your control.  The flip side is that Yahoo sounds relatively easy to do... on balance, it kind of depends how much functionality Yahoo has to offer.  But how about directing me to the Rokon Yahoo database, so that I can evaluate.  

I could offer some alternatives -- I have a range of DB web applications that the POG webmasters could use.  Or they could link out to a page I maintain to have the look and feel of the POG site.

A lot of options and I am too new here to have a feel for what everyone would prefer or what has been tried before.  Good database design is an art and I would like to see Poggers get the most robust system possible while staying in their comfort zone (of people and systems they trust and are accustomed to working with...)

[BrianTaylor]

Lynn here is link to Rokon site I dont think you have to be a member to view .... the Data Base is Rokon to Commercial parts.... Brian T.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/rokon/database

Brian Taylor

[firstturn]

Brian,
  Your idea is something I feel is needed for the future enhancement of people trying to feel like getting into the Penton mainstream of enjoyment of their motorcycles.  Thanks
Lynn,
  Your encouragement and offer to help is very kind of you and I hope that this subject could be addressed possibly at a POG meeting.  

 To all POG members,
  I think first of all this needs to be a "WE" project where all or who ever wants to help can have input.  I would also like to see included into this site parts that are alternatives.  I remember some one coming up with another part to use inplace of the original rubber tank pads for the HiBreather frames.  Its just a thought, but I get calls from time to time of people who are just about to give up on even getting a Penton running much less a finish a restoration.  In closing Project.  If we can do this the complaint department would only be accessible to those that have contributed.

Ron Carbaugh

[tmc3c]

I myself would think that this would be a great help to us that are in the process of a resto, like myself starting from ground up.It would be a great help to see the part also if we could. I wish Al would be on line with all of his parts and have a shopping cart.Larry Perkins is a real nice guy also and is very helpful and has a lot of parts too, if we could combine everybody into one section here in POG it would be Great! I myself have had nothing but problems with Yahoo and I have seen others with the same problems.So thats my 2 cents,for what is worth.

Thomas Carmichael

[LynnCamp]

Ron, you hit the nail on the head because if this is to be done right, the project will need the experience and input from as many POGers as possible. (the provebial "how many POGers does it take to screw in a headlamp")should be good in this case.

I have been thinking about this for a long time and have some ideas, but I lack "vintage parts" knowledge.  For example, how would someone go about looking for a vintage part?  By year, by model, by name, by manufacturer or all of the above?  From reading the posts, it doesn't always seem clear which part to use (ie., the plastic vs. metal fender debate) even during the same model year.  So it seems rather complicated.  Then there is Ron's point about incorporating "substitute" parts into the DB.  In trying to research this, I thought that Higgin's KTM World has done a great job of organizing the data -- but primarily because there are schematics to reference.  I don't know if you have anything schematics that are available for the Penton bikes.  http://www.ktminfo.com/partscat/Catalog.asp

The good news is that the person that manufactures a part will hopefully be able to submit the part to the DB and post it under the year and model appropriate to the part.  The hard part will be making sure that the person who posts a part will pull it down once they run out or quit manufacturing..... lot's to think of, but I don't think we should be discouraged by the complexities.  This is a close enough (and mature enough group that I'm sure we can make it work.

Ron, if you all want to toss around the idea at a meeting, just let us know what we can do to help you prepare – prototypes or printouts of prototype pages, whatever.....

[dirtbike]

This is a good idea! The only problem is that the Yahoo groups is drowning in advertizing junk and that is just about the worst thing I know of. I have even blocked incoming messages from the entire Yahoo domain because of all spam originating from there. Sorry to say I don't get the mailing list mails either from MAICOMOTORCYCLES. I have to browse them online.

Like most of you know, I have some 30GB free on a Linux,MySQL,PhP machine to offer for free so there really is no need to reduce the site or intention into an annoying ad pop up game where you even have to provide an unhealthy dose of personal data just to view the exposed ads. When it comes to database design, it's my profession since several years as a programmer and I can help out with anything between nothing and everything! Were talking about a very simple database structure here.

[LynnCamp]

Dirt Bike -- how exciting to run into a bit-head and pogger.
I have a prototype put together (ASP with an Access back end) that works like a catalog.  I am now putting together a second prototype that works more like a classified ad site to see which one might work better for our purposes.  I also rent space on a couple of host Win2000 servers that we could put the data and pages on, however, POG may want to keep the pages and data on their servers.  Alternatively, I would give them the password to mine and they could create a backup once in a while.

Would love to collaborate with you and anyone else that has some experience, since the consensus seems to be that Yahoo isn't the ideal solution.  Since Brian has experience setting up his site, I imagine that he would have a lot of good suggestions.

On second thought.... since you have programming and "vintage parts" experience, we might be better off having you program the site in MySQL and PHP. ... hmmmm. Maybe we can discuss off line.

At any rate, once we get some ideas together then maybe Ron can put it in front of a POG meeting. I'm excited!!!!:D

[dirtbike]

It would be easiest for those about to work with it to use an access file. The POG message board today is based on a plain access database. Since there is no need for transactions, triggers or even relation constraints it may serve well. Technically I preffer MySQL or even better, MS-SQL but it require a telnet session and working at the SQL prompt (MySQL). Quite impossible for those not familiar with the SQL language. The good thing with an access file is that one can work with it in access locally and then just upload it through FTP.

Infact, in the best of worlds I would like to set up a database for vintage parts in general outputting all imaginable search and selects as XML and then have POG or any other site creating their interface and parsing the XML for any desired output. It would be best but getting that many people understanding the project and contributing is as close to impossible as anything ever gets.

[LynnCamp]

Dirt Bike,
XML might be worthwhile if the motorcyle industry has agreed to or is working on XML standards -- probably more meaningful for modern parts. Do you know if the industry has set standards yet? If not, it will be easy enough to mark up the data we have collected for future application.

Whether we use your MySQL/PHP or my Access/ASP, we need to structure it so folks can fill out a form online that will write to the data file. Then we don't have to worry about FTP.

[dirtbike]

LynnCamp,
I have tons of ready or half ready applications in both PhP, ASP, ColdFusion and as compiled EXE's from C++.
I just don't know how to approach the subject. See, it would be good from a POG perspective to create a smaller Penton parts database withing the POG site. That way the interest of the marquee can be raised and maintained and the POG site will be the ultimate reference source in these matters.

On the other hand, seen from a more branch-wide perspective most manufacturers make retro parts for other bikes then Penton too. It could well be it that someone launches a good site where all manufacturers can add their info and search for practically any part and find it. You see, it's a little like ebay. The POG forum buy and sell area is doomed to be very marginal as well as other alikes. Eventually there will be a "de facto" standard and these "spread out" small home made solutions will be forgotten.

The buy and sell area in the POG forum could be reworked too to suit this too.