Frame strength

[tlanders]

The first KTM engines in the '73-'77 frames had two struts, one on each side that tied into the frames on a diagonal. My 1980 MC80 frame with a '77 400 engine in it does not have these struts. Does this mean:
1. The early frames needed the struts to strenthen them, using the engine as part of the frame?
2. It was orginally thought that the engines needed the struts to reduce vibration and later on they decided that the struts didn't help?
3. The later frames are stronger and don't need the struts?

Does anyone have any idea as to why the struts were there to begin with and are not now needed? The reason for the question is I would like to take the struts off the early bikes so it is easier to get at the carb. Or is this the reason they were eliminated by Penton/KTM?

Teddy

[firstturn]

Teddy,
  I will tell you my thoughts then the real experts will tell both of us the real truth and that's fine, I never quit learning.
  I believe the thought originally was to add these(struts) for two basic reasons:
1.  The weight of the engine.
2.  They also made the engine a intergral part of the frame and if the bolts are tightened properly there should be little or no vibration.
  To answer your question on removing the struts, or as I call them engine hangers, I would highly recommend against doing this.  Also since I didn't race the later Pentons/KTMs I really can't answer your question on why they were done away with except that possibly the engineering and strength in design (frame updates) deemed them not nessesary.  I know at Honda we were very successful using the engines as a part of the frame(on XRs mostly) so that is part of my theroy on you subject.
  As always Teddy I hope this helps, but lets wait till after somebody just turn the herd loose and runs over me and shows how really stupid I am.  Hey at least I stepped up to the plate.

Your friend Down South,  Now where is that frame #:[)]

Ron Carbaugh

[tlanders]

Ron,

The frame number is at home, I'm at work. I know there must be a way to solve this predicament!!!!

Thanks for stepping up to the plate!!! I loved your comments on Ohio Ted's video.

Teddy

[firstturn]

Teddy,
  As always we are having fun with that Phantom Frame Number(PFN).  I hope that what I said made sense on the 250/400 frames.
  Dog gone that Ted he told me that camera didn't have any film in it.  Was I telling the story of the Elsinores that were built by the Big Bad Guys (DG, FMF and JP Racing) and the lowly Penton that had to be given a head start to make the race fair, oh er the Penton got the head start at the line.  One good thing when I tell a story it is it takes on a life of it's own, you know it kinda gets better every time I tell the story.[:I]

Ron Carbaugh

[john durrill]

Teddy ,
 I'll pass along what I saw  as dealer in the 72 through 75 frames. the only frames we had crack were the ones that the braces were taken off of.
 Some of the later  frames had a different shape . They handled the suspension loads better, so no braces. If the factory went to the expense of shipping the bike with braces , they believed they needed them. They could have left them off and charged us the same sticker price , made more money  . Frames like my 73 and my son's 75 175 need the braces i believe. You could leave the right side off till you have the jetting done and then put it back on. thats what i did with mine back then.
 MX and CC i would def. leave them on. Trail rideing and vintage enduros you could get away with them off if you did'nt run the bike hard in the rough.
Thats what my experience in the 70's would lead me to do.
John D.

[Dennis Jones]

Ron, Come on up to Missouri and pick your bike up and we can go sneek into Teddy's barn and get that (PFN).

Dennis Jones

[firstturn]

Dennis,
  Do we wait till there is a National or just surround the house/garage and take over?  Is it safe to talk about "The Bike" on POG?  Thanks Dennis I am excited about "the Bike".

Ron Carbaugh

[tlanders]

Bob W.,

Rosemary and I are planning on Portland. Look forward to seeing you again there.

Ron and Dennis,

I would LOVE to have you guys come and visit. I had a friend drop by last Friday night with a $250 1980 KTM he bought a year ago that wasn't running and was missing a bunch of stuff. We found enough parts to get it running by 4 PM Saturday. It was a fun day of fellowship and a great joy to see him popping third gear wheelies!!!

Teddy

[john durrill]

Ron,
Ummm..... is that the bike the military crank is going in?
Inquiring minds want to know . chuckle chuckle!!!!!

[Dennis Jones]

Teddy, it sounds like you and your friend had a great time. Nothing like getting a 24 year old bike back to life.

Dennis Jones

[firstturn]

John,
  This will have the lightened crank and twin carburetors.  I also have what is belived to be a '68 frame that I believe to be a Leroy Winters frame....if you saw how many holes were drilled in this frame you would know it probably was Leroy's.  That was a real trade mark to the great rider intovator.  Don't be letting out everything you and I talked about it is hard enough for us Southern boys to stay ahead of those Northern guys.  It was great to talk with you and hear names like Jimmy Thorton and Rick Grant.  More to come.

Ron Carbaugh