Production numbers not in sequence of updates.

[rob w]

I guess this would be an example of how the evolution of changes in these bikes could go against the sequence of production numbers stamped on the frames.

Here's what I found. I got 2 new rolling chassis last week, both with frame numbers starting 54 (KTM engined) 412's (Dec,'74). I started disassembling them and found the first frame, # 412 79906 to be just like my rider, # 412 80254. Then I began to look at the other one I picked up and noticed it had the factory updated strengthening gusset around lower part of the head tube, and the newer rear brake stay anchoring tab on the swingarm. I then looked at it's frame number and it is # 412 80116.
 That is 138 numbered bikes earlier than my rider, but with the newer/updated changes incorporated into the frame and swingarm.

 So with these three examples to go by it slightly narrows down the time frame as to when these changes may have occured. Maybe within 200 units or so if I'm on the right track, that's pretty close.
 
 How many bikes could they produce in a day? Or in a week?

 But as we already knew, there were no definite set rules as to when certain parts were put into use on the assembly line.

This does tell me though that my "rider" sat around the factory for a just abit after the updates first took place before they grabbed it and sent it down the line to be finished.

 These are the things that makes this all the more fun for me, I love discovering and playing around with this sort of junk.

Who else has some KTM engined 412's to compare this with?. When do you suppose they apx. started incorporating the ribbed Ceriani forks. I have'nt found any of those models yet.

Enough for now....enjoy.
Rob, Bob, Brob, Baub....whatever.


 

[rob w]

Oh, that brings up another question for Dane.
At what point in the production of these bikes, was the operation of stamping the frame numbers into the head tube done? I know it was'nt long before they hit the ships and sailed out.

Tomorrow night I will talk about the time frame it takes from the point in which the frame numbers were stamped on the bike, until the time it reached my dealers showroom floor.

I'm able to tell that story by going from the imformation found on my old " Manufacturer's Statement of Origin to a Motor Vehicle". I saved them from back in the day when I purchased my Penton's new.

Thanks a ton,
Bob

[TGTech]

Rob,

I don't know if I can say for sure when the frame numbers were asigned to the frames, but I almost wonder if the numbers weren't stamped on the necks before they were welded into the frame? I would surely be easier to do the process if you were working with just a part instead of the whole frame.

I vaguely remember watching the frame assembly process, but I never took the initiative to see if the frame numbers were on the necks before they were welded in.

Dane

[Big Mac]

OK, but figure this out for me...my '77GS6 250, originally sold in the west and branded KTM and blue instead of orange, has the frame serial number stamped on the right side fork stop bracket. There's nothing on the steering stem at all.

So did they stamp some GS6's different than others, depending on where they were headed? Did they stamp numbers when frames were assembled, or on parts before assembly? And why stamp some VIN numbers on brackets instead of the usual stem location?

Had to be some logic there somewhere.

Mac

[Big Mac]

OK, but figure this out for me...my '77GS6 250, originally sold in the west and branded KTM and blue instead of orange, has the frame serial number stamped on the right side fork stop bracket. There's nothing on the steering stem at all.

So did they stamp some GS6's different than others, depending on where they were headed? Did they stamp numbers when frames were assembled, or on parts before assembly? And why stamp some VIN numbers on brackets instead of the usual stem location?

Had to be some logic there somewhere.

Mac

[DKWRACER]

Jon, it's my guess that true 77 GS (turtle back high breather) started with 701 stamped into the fork stop, have two that way, and yes per your email , my lastest roller in orange was a 125cc with MC5 style tank with black c-shaped decal, but have also seen them with the large nduro tank with L-shaped stripe (250/400 only?), and MC5 style tanks and c-shaped black "world champion" styled decals. Then again seen them in pure white with 78 MC5 style decals and GS type side panels, much like 76 MC5/GS panels only slightly larger. three hole mtg...wow, so many forms a 77 may have come in, see ya, Tom...

[OUCWBOY]

I had about 5 1977 GS 6 Frames that I got from Larry. All had the number stamped on the for stop. The 1976 MC5 had the number stamped there also, however the 1976 GS had the numbers on the steering head.

Donny Smith

[tomale]

So what about a frame that has no numbers, Terry bought a bike last year that had no frame numbers at all. It did not appear to be altered in anyway... It looks like a 74/75 frame. Any ideas.

Thom Green,Still crazy after all these years!
76' 250 MC5 (orginal owner)
78' 400 MC5

[OUCWBOY]

I don't know if it's true or not, but I once heard that a replacement frame didn't have numbers.

Donny Smith

[CharlieT]

I've looked around this site and searched this forum adn couldn't find any specifics. Is there a listing for the pre-VIN, "V" chassis that can verify what year a frame is?? How many "V" bikes ewre there?