ArenaCross and KTM

[OUCWBOY]

A few years ago I was in the market to buy a NEW 125 cc MX bike for a young man that was a natural. I did tons of research, read all the bike shootouts and visited each and every Brand dealer to look at and feel the machines. It came to my conclusion when reading the Shootouts, that it was money....... $$$$$$$ determined the shootout results, nothing more. When you read what the riders themselves said, I felt it broke down to this. The expert riders who had ridden European bikes loved the KTM. The expert riders who had almost never ridden European bikes liked it, but not as well as bikes they were more used to. (This even goes back as far as 1976 when one of the magazines did a test between the 1976 KTM powered Penton 125 vs the CR 125 Honda) I bought a NEW 125 SX from one of our old Penton dealers in Oklahoma and had it shipped to CA. It was the fastest of the 125's and having NEVER ridden a Jap bike before, except for the 1st year TM400 Suzuki, it was a piece of cake. I rode all 4 of the others and I didn't like any of them. Power was all wrong, handled like crap. And they were HEAVY. A 125 should not weigh that much. I would be willing to bet, that if you took all 5 bikes to Europe and had 5 expert MX guys ride each of them (without Factory or $$$ influence) the results would be Much different. Just my 2 cents on that issue.
As far as Super Cross and such, it is all $$$$. How about a MX race like the old days. Take a rough piece of land, walk it and stake out a track, line em up and let them race for 45 minutes a Moto. Now to me, that would be a true Moto Cross.

Donny Smith

[lksseven]

Donny,

I agree - the US rider reviews are tainted by their backgrounds, as are mine.  I just hate it that $$$ rules and colors everything (I know ..... "time to grow up, Larry!")

I wonder if there are any European MX magazines?  If so, I'd love to see how their MX brand "shootouts" have a different pecking order.

And I TOTALLY agree that about the weight issue - weight is one of the two biggest complaints I have with modern bikes (the other is that they sit up too damn high - I understand how that's necessary for 60' jumps, but how is a 37" seat height better for woods riding/racing?  Why doesn't some manufacturer come up with a way of letting the user lower the frame or suspension heights 3 or 4 inches, or a third party offer aftermarket suspension to do that?  Would it be possible?).  

Also, just a personal preference - modern bikes fail miserably from an aesthetic standpoint.  The late 60's/early 70's designs will be admired a hundred years from now - they're timeless.  A hundred years from now, Is anyone going to fall in love with the look of a 2004 Big 4 MX design? It's like falling in love with a big wasp.

Larry Seale
I choose to ride

[ronlee]

HELLO
I just posted a question about KTM.
I can assure you KTM is waaaaay to expensive for the ordinary privateer to run.
The M/X machines are just not reliable enough for us regular folk to take a chance on.
I speak from experince and have switched to Yamaha for reliability and cost.
THANKS

[rob w]

I suppose since times are-a-chang'n and all, it's probably too late......, but could someone please replace all the cheesy Regional (amateur) Arena-X's with some good ol' fashion Professional Indoor Short Tracks. !!!!

b:Db

[OUCWBOY]

YES, YES, YES...... The kind where the ventilation was bad and you had to breathe all the 2 stroke fumes all night!!!!

Donny Smith

[Keithuu]

With all due respect, you really can't compare KTM with the Big 3 (or4). When was the last time there was a significant number of "left over" KTM's at your local dealer? It's usually not too tough to find last year's (or even 2 or 3 years ago) Hondakawazukiyamayomama down the street, other than certain limited production models. KTM pretty much sells everything they import, with rare exception.

KTM, with the exception of hiring McGrath, well past prime-time, doesn't appear to want to compete with the big guys' budgets when it comes to name riders. Does anyone think that it's Suzuki and Kawasaki that are "making" R.C. and Bubba the dominant riders they are? These guys could win on Whizzers. Do you think that if KTM dropped a big wad of money in front of Carmichael or Stewart they could have a chance at an MX championship of some sort?

In a slightly different vein within this thread, I'm not currently aware of any KTM reliability problems, save for the ones referenced within. Can anyone enlighten me? Also, cost-wise, I'm pretty sure that the prices of the most highly sought after of the Japanese bikes have substantially caught up with KTM's prices, not even considering the high quality componentry built into the Katooms.

And lastly, to dear Robbo, during the few times I was in San Francisco, back "in the day", it sure wasn't 2-stroke fumes permeating the air[]

Keithuu

[tomale]

Yes, yes, yes, I bought my first Penton/KTM because it was the most reliable bike out there.... you can't win if you don't finish.... That is really important in the woods... and it is no wonder that KTM's do so well with the off road croud. When I bought my first KTM it was the most expensive bike available and not just by a couple hundred bucks but alot more. but it was worth it. In summer of 74 I bought a new Maico GP 400 and it was 1800 bucks, the next year I bought the KTM and it was 2500 bucks, not these days, that is not much but then that was significant. Theses days that it no longer true and the KTM's of today maybe a little more money but not by much and if you add in the fact that you just get a better crafted bike then  it is a whale of a deal...
I was 18 when I saw my first and only InterAm, That track was so tough I could not even walk some sections of the track. One section comes to mind was an off camber straight away. we are not talking 6 degress offcamber but 30 degrees off camber and if you did not stay on the course you were in the blackberry bushes... Now that is Motocross... I was watching a tribute to Dale senior the other day and they were saying that one of the positive things that came out of his death was the fact that they got a lot tougher on safety regulations. I hope it does not take the death of one of the beloved motocross heros to bring similar actions.
funny, I remember the days of indoor short track, my brother use to do that stuff so I went with him often. I smelled like blenzall for days...One of his favorite tracks if you can call it that, was at the Santa Clara fair grounds... home of the famous San Jose Mile.. any way they would open up one of the exibition halls and they would run it there... just enough room for a small set of grand stands and an oval track..... We pitted outside. and waited for his race. good times for sure.

Thom Green,Still crazy after all these years!
76' 250 MC5 (orginal owner)
75' GS400 (project bike)
72'sixday (project bike)

[tmc3c]

I NEVER had a Penton/KTM die on me while I was flat tracking,NEVER!!! We had a money race coming up and I had a new 76 125 on order and it was sitting on the dock in C.A. due to a long shoreman strike.My father bought me a cr125 to race in this race and let me tell you that my Penton,when I got it would blow by that Honda with NO Problem!!None of the big 4 could run with a stock Penton!!You would have to rub on the jap bikes to make them run,and they did.The only problem I had was missing shifts on short tracks.The 3/8 mile was when I wasn't in such of a hurry to make the shift that the Sachs would shine.If I knew the people I know now .....well anyway. I rode a BOX STOCK Penton and ran in the front at all of the races.Tires and gearing that is all that was changed on my bike.At Orangeburg speedway a yamaha dealer was sitting with Ed Stokes/My local Penton dealer and he said that they thought I was running illegal fuel because the Penton was so fast.Ed said no but I washed my bike a lot.My Father liked a clean a bike.
 Nothing I would love to see better than a tt or short track back in the lime light!! How about a scramble race? Racing is racing when it is a level playing field unlike supercross where the big 4 have a limo bring in a pair of zillon dollar forks for the superstar while the local guy is still trying to make the show.Like my father always said you can't out run money!Thank You guys for reading my ramblings! My blood runs ORANGE just not Clemson orange!!



Thomas Carmichael


1970 125 Six Day
1976 250 Hare Scrambler