Ebay 73 Hare Scrambler

[rob w]

I guy by the name of Carl Cranke is bidding on my friend Bruce's '73 Penton Hare Scrambler.

[Rocket]

Rob
Waht kind of condition is the 73 250 in, pipe in good condition, motor ok?  Will the tank need painting or can it be buffed out?
thanks
Rocket

[Chakka]

Wow, I hope Carl wins it. Imagine the tuning suggestions he could post on this forum?

Chris

[rob w]

Rocket,
 It has a good tank, w/ original paint. The pipe is nice, original, no dents. I've heard it run, sounded fair. Like he says, it needs a clutch basket and primary gear. "Wildman" is more familiar with the bike, than I.
I do know, a '73 Hare Scrambler in Enduro form, is maybe one of my all-time favorite Penton models.

Bob

[Dwight Rudder]

I emailed the guy bidding on this bike. It is not Carl but a Carl fan.
His name is Chris Miller. He sounds like our kind of guy. I am posting his reply below.
Dwight

======================================================================


Hi Mr. Rudder:

Thanks a lot for the email and the information. I plan to join the POG if I'm lucky enough to get this 250 and I'll look into the vintage enduro organization as well as the ISDT reunion ride.

Just a point of clarification (this is a bit embarassing), but I'm not "the" Carl Cranke. Just a long-time fan of Mr. Cranke,  and all of you ISDT riders. I had your photos from Dirt Bike magazine plastered all over my room when I was a kid. I didn't realize the eBay user ID would be plastered on the bid site. I just signed up for eBay so I could bid on this 250 Hare Scrambler, and when it asked for a user ID I just went with something I knew I'd remember, so I typed in "carlcranke." Sorry about the confusion. I'm a novice at this eBay thing.

I remember all you guys from my youth. Other kids looked up to football or baseball players, I was the kid who thought the ISDT was the best sporting event ever and the U.S. team riders Gods! Still do. It captured my fancy after watching On Any Sunday and then moving to Texas. My father and I were members of the Fort Hood Dirt Riders Club in Fort Hood, Texas, from 1975 to 1978 when we lived there. We helped lay out the 2-Day Qualifier courses, marking trail in the hills and amid the cedars and rocky ground of Central Texas. Best time of my youth, for sure. We also ran a check point one year, and then time checks during the 77 and 78 qualifiers. We still have photos of a lot of you guys, including one of Carl Cranke when he was at our time check in 78. I believe he was riding a Yamaha IT that year. I still think of him as a Penton/KTM guy, though. Weren't you riding a Hercules one of those years? I also still have a copy of the poster we had from the 1977 qualifier where many of the entrants signed their names. I'm going to pull it out tonight and see if I can find your autograph.

I've always thought the Penton motorcycle was the pinnacle of enduro machines at that time, at least that was the overwhelming belief of the group of guys we all rode with in the club. And of course those other fantastic machines, Husky, Hercules, Can-Am, Rokon, Bultaco, SWM, etc ... I started riding in 1973, a Yamaha enduro 60, then racing and riding the following years up to age 16 (I got sidetracked by high school football). Had Yamahas, Hodakas and eventually PE175s (78 and 80 models). I always wanted (but just couldn't afford) a Penton/KTM. I haven't ridden off-road since 1985 (the year I went in the Army and sold my last PE), but the bug has always been there and it really bit hard two years ago when I attended the Vintage Motorcycle Days at MidOhio and went to the POG tent. What a trip down memory lane! I'd really love to get my hands on one of these great machines to help preserve it, and of course ride it! Only two more days and my dream may come true.

If it's not too much trouble, could you let me know of any good sources for Penton parts, accessories, as well as tech info. I've checked out some of the links on the POG website, but didn't know if there are others I should be aware of.

Thanks for listening to an old guy ramble down memory lane.

Sincerely,

Chris Miller
[email protected]

Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.

[wildman]

I've seen, rode and worked on Bruces 250 and think it's a nice bike. I talked to Bruce yesterday and reminded him it's really a 73; He knew that but it's titled as a 1974. He's fixed it up pretty nice as he was going to ride it but with a new KTM 400 doesn't have the time or inclination for the old girl. I've tried to convince him to vintage race as I've had a blast on mine at Portland and Red Bud. We go way back as riding buddies. I hope he kicks himself good, later! This guy finds deals all over, sells a lot of stuff on Ebay, a good guy. I read his listing and he was completely honest. I was tempted to send a question about turn signals, an old joke between us.  Good luck on your bidding, watch out during the last hour or so. Wildman

1975 250 Cross Country, 1974 175 Jackpiner, 1975 125

[Larry Perkins]

Hate to be a bubble buster but that bike is a 74 not a 73.  This has come up before but in POG Land things seem to come up again and again.

At KTM they went on Holiday(vacation) in August.  When they returned in September they began to produce the next years bikes.  This bike was produced in September of 73 and would have arrived a month to three months later.  I have seen several original early 74's that are using up the yellow components.  If it is September or later make date it is the next year.  At Odessa Sales and Rentals where I worked at the time the first two 74 250's were yellow, the next two were short travel red, and the next two were multi-shock position red.

That bike is a 74 in my opinion Historically.  Still a nice PENTON!

Larry P

[454MRW]

Larry,
How would you classify a short travel (311) build date red 250 HS and a (411) build date multi shock position blue toaster tank 250 with tank cables? I have one of each. Thanks, Mike

Michael R. Winter
1974 250 Harescrambler
1974 1/2 250 W/175 eng.
1975 250 HS Project
1977 250 MC5 Project
1978 250 MX6  
1979 250 KTM Project
1980 250 MX KTM

[Larry Perkins]

A 1974 and a 1975.  The blue toaster tank I think was put on later by someone.  When out west they became KTM and Pentons were east there were blue tanked 250's but I think that was not till 76.  Not sure though as we were fed by Penton Central an ours were Penton.

That's my call whatever that is worth.

Larry P

[wildman]

Read the production guide, this bike has all the earmarks of a 1973 model, regardless of when KTM was supposed to change over. Actually, the guide calls it a 1973 1/2 . Only thing I see different is it doesn't have the full clutch cover. It doesn't have ANY of the stuff listed as changed for 1974. I still think Bruce is crazy to sell it. ( Are you reading this, Bruiser?)  Wildman

1975 250 Cross Country, 1974 175 Jackpiner, 1975 125

[Larry Perkins]

I gave my opinion as how it happened where I was and that is all I intended to do.  I don't care to read any guide that tries to pick history apart.  There were constant changes in KTM motorcycles along the way.  If today you pick apart what happened back then you might come up with 73.75 and 74.75 models even, but that is not what they were then, it is just what people try to disect it as now.  So I will keep my opinion from what I remember and call it a transition 74  and you read some guide and you can call it a 73, 73.5, or even 73.75.  We all have opinions.  In the end KTM did it the way I described it. If you read that guide enough and enough people look at it that way long enough then it will be that way historically but in reality when the bikes came to us then they were 73's and 74's and had 73 and 74 MSO'S and titles.


Larry P

[Chakka]

I also think KTM used what was availible at the moment in some cases. They had a standard build for say a 1975 Harescrambler. But if they were running shy of large enduro tanks it could end up with toaster or mx tank. I have 2 Penton's in my collection that exibited these transgretions from the norm. One is a late 74 Jackpiner that has a 73 toaster tank on it. No long racing stripe decal. Im very sure this tank was what was supplied originally. I also have a 76' Jackpiner that has orange side covers which KTM made up by spraying over a pair of blue side covers. I guess what I am saying is KTM didn't always stick to the plan & people modify thier bikes over time. Its very difficult to pin down exact time of build unless you go by frame number.
Chris

[VICTOR MONZ]

Wow !  Lots of opinions on this topic.

I will be receiving the bike in a week or so and it really doesn't matter to me.

What I do know is in early 1974 my best friend worked at Penton R&D on Elyria Ave. in Lorain, Ohio, where we were born and raised.  He bought a yellow/gold 250 Harescrambler, used from Jack Horinek an R&D'er who in turn bought it from one of the ISDT Riders working there...not sure which one.  It was a real "grizzly bear"...

Now I have one, a nice one at that and don't really care about the  perceived year.  It has the old frame style and that's the big difference.  So there!

I will be racing it in Southern California Vintage Races....I'm looking forward to putting it up against the CZ Guys.  All my Pentons seem to get to the first turn first !  Then the fun begins.

Good Day and Good Judgement to all you Penton lovers....