18" rear wheel spoke length

[lksseven]

'72 Jackpiner, and '70 Steeltanker ... both with 18" rears, and 21" fronts.  I took spokes off both front and rear wheels of each bike, dumped them in a box, and had them cadmium coated.  Just picked up the finished product, and noticed that I have 3 different sizes of spokes, 6-5/8" (36 ea), 7-5/8" (36 ea), and 8-1/8" (72 ea).  

I measured both Jackpiner and Steeltank hubs - they're the same measurements in diameter and thickness.  I measured both rear rims from inside nipple bulge to nipple bulge across the diameter - they're both the same (16.75").

Could the difference be in the angle of the nipple holes in each rim ... the more acute hole-angled rim requiring the longer spoke?

Larry Seale
I choose to ride

[thrownchain]

This is why you keep everything seperate and labelled.[xx(]

[Gavin Housh]

Larry, I've built some wheels and have some experiance in this sort of thing. Although I'm not positive. But if I was Vulcan I would say that logic dictates that the front wheel has no reason not to be centered. Meaning that both the hub and the rim should sit close to center in the forks. Therefore since the the rim size is lager in the front than the rear, and the flange diameter is the same for both hubs the 72 long spokes wil be for the front wheels. Now about the two different length remaining spokes. The rear hub has a sprocket carrier on the right side and the brake plate and axel spacer on the left side. these parts on either side of the hub take up about the same space leaving us to conclude that the rear hub is also centerd on the swing arm at the axel. That can only mean that the 72 Jackpine had a three cross lacing and uses the longer or 7 5/8" spokes and the Steeltanker came with two cross lacing and uses the shorter 6 5/8" spokes. Good luck:D

[Doug Wilford]

Gavin is close The Steel tankers usually were a cross three pattern and the 72 were longer cross four pattern.  Good luck and have fun!!

[Rain Man]

I'm not sure if after the platings done if you gotta chase the threads on all those spokes or not ??  Just a thought if your nipples are going on rather hard [8D]

Raymond
 Down East Pentons

[lksseven]

Hi guys,

It costs $75 minimum (for 20 pounds) here to cad-coat stuff.  I just couldn't bring myself to pay an extra $75 to run the second bike's spokes through as a separate batch (I might regret that).

I left the nipples on the spoke threads during the coating process, so no worries about threads being too tight (learned that the hard way!).

Doug, I believe you.   I'll lace up a few spokes on each wheel (seeing is 'really' believing!) to verify, then get after it.

Larry Seale
I choose to ride

[linglewn]

You might want to make sure you have stock, OEM, rims. Some aftermarket rims are drilled for a different pattern (cross 3 vs cross 4 for example), and require a different spoke length. Good luck. With enough time, I'm sure you will figure it out. Definitely all the spokes on each rim are the same length.

Nelson Lingle

[lksseven]

Hi Nelson,

good reminder.  Yes, they are all stock.  

I partially laced up the Jackpiner rear wheel with the 7-5/8" (longer of the two choices) spokes, and it seemed to be the answer.  Tomorrow I'll lace up a few sections of the Steeltank rear with the 6-5/8" spokes to make sure, then ship off Steeltank rims for chroming.

Have a great weekend.

Larry Seale
I choose to ride

[cubfan1968]

Larry, just how many Pentons do you have now? It seems like you always got a new project going.

Rod Whitman
1972 Six Day (Rider)
1972 Six Day (Project)

[lksseven]

Hi Rod,

6.  It's ridiculous (thank God I didn't start obsessing on old cars!! ... or red heads [8D] ))

    - '74 6day that Ron C. found for me in Texas.  I slaved on this bike getting it to run well, then rode in '05 ISDTRR and then restored last winter; this bike sits in my office, and I love love love it

    - '73 Wassel, via Ron C.  that Dennis Jones won '01National Trials on (way to go, Dennis!!!) which is a really fun bike to ride around; this bike also sits in my office.

    - '73 Harescrambler which I got from Gary Ellis at '05 VMD - very good restore by Gary, faaaaast bike; this bike was also ridden in the '05 ISDTRR by Mike Husted  I will most likely sell this bike - I don't have time to ride everything, and it's a waste that someone isn't riding and enjoying this bike - it's beautiful!

    - '73 6day that is a complete but non-running bike - stuck engine and rusty rusty rusty.  This bike is waiting patiently to be made into a good racer - I won't try to make it look too pretty, just solid.  This might be a couple of years down the road, or maybe I'll sell it to someone who is gungho to restore it.

    - '70 Steeltanker ... bought this skeleton roller from Donny Smith in June '05, and am just now starting in on it - engine was restored by Doug W. and sits in my dad's old office so I can appreciate it daily.  My plan/hope is to restore this bike  to pristine condition and park it in my house in the entry hall (not sure my wife knows that yet! ... I'll keep it a secret for now, so as not to ruin the surprise! ).  I spent way too much on a pipe on Ebay earlier this summer, but it's about a foot shorter than it should be, so that might be an expensive lesson.  Other than the pipe, I lack fenders (I ordered a set of the alumnimum fenders that other were talking about 2 months ago, but never received them, so the order online didn't 'take', apparently - I'll have to re- search POG to discover where I rodered from and try again.  I've got stuff beadblasted and other stuff cad coated ; sending off stuff to be chromed this week. I've been experimenting with polishing hubs this weekend - don't know whether to polish and clearcoat, or paint.  Any suggestion?

    - '72 Jackpiner I got from original owner in Arlington TX - I"m doing a modified restore on this bike, would love to get it in good racing condition (I hope) for '06 ISDTRR.  It's sucking wind from somewhere, and spokes were rusty (had cad-coated, and rear shocks were Progressive street shocks - no give whatsoever, it's like riding with steel tubes welded from the seat to the swingarm - OUCH!, and pipe was corroded through on the hidden side of main pipe.  So I need to lace wheels, had the pipe brazed and need to paint it, replace rear shocks, and find where air is coming into engine, then get running well and see everybody in October ... hurry up Larry!!!  After the race, I will probably sell this bike, too.  Too many bikes that aren't being ridden doesn't feel right.   I'm partial to the 125's with Sachs engines - that's my background.  Although I have a KTM 200 XCW that I absolutely love, and ride with a friend here almost every weekend (he rides a Honda CFR250X, but I try not to hold that against him).  I only wish the KTM was about 3" shorter in the seat height - woods and exploration riding are a lot more enjoyable when you aren't feeling like you're riding a stepladder.

PS - has anyone seen pictures of the prototype pre-production KTM RC8 1050cc superbike streetbike that will probably  be selling in 2007?  OMG - it looks like it came off the same assembly line as a Stealth Fighterjet.  I will be sorely sorely tempted to start selling blood downtown and save up $$$ to get one of these.

So that's it - probably more info than you wanted!  

Rod, you're also working on a Steeltank restore, aren't you?  How's it going?  I'll try to take some pics and post them in the next few days - my daughter's leaving for college (freshman) this Saturday, so this week I'm mostly just chasing down details and being depressed.  I had no idea watching her prepare to leave would be so hard.

Larry Seale
I choose to ride

[cubfan1968]

Wow Larry you got a garage full. Prior to Labor Day weekend of 2004 I had 0, zero, ought, donut motorcycles setting in the backroom of my garage. Now my son and myself have 5. Two "72" Six Days, 1984 Honda XR 500, 1980 Kawasaki 250 Street Bike and a 1981 650 Yamaha street bike. The 2 street bikes were given to my son by folks who no longer wanted them. Now my garage is full I need to move the bikes around just to work on my 72 Six Day project bike.

You must have a great wife if she would let you put a motorcycle in the house. I had to battle over Bass and a deer head in the rec room.

Your daughter leaving for college, does that make you empty nesters? This happened last fall for us. At first it was kinda weird but now were real used to it.

Take it easy.



Rod Whitman
1972 Six Day (Rider)
1972 Six Day (Project)

[Rocket]

Larry
I may be interested in the 73 Harescrambler, any pictures?

The longest spokes are going to be for the 21" front wheel either a cross 2 or cross 3 pattern, can't tell without actually starting to lace the wheel.  The next length of spoke should be for an 18" in a cross 3 pattern and the shortest will be for an 18" in a cross 2 pattern.

Rocket

[lksseven]

Rod,

I have a 2006 Triumph Thruxton 900 retro (looks like something from 1969).  I contemplated getting an old street bike and fixing it up, but the idea of being 15 miles from the house on the side of the road with a broken down streetbike made me chicken out.  You have more courage (and I'm sure more 'fix-it' skills) than I do.  It's great to be able to hop on a street bike and run to the store during the week, and quench a little 'need for speed'

I have a small business that has office and warehouse space.  I had a spare service room in the back (when we had a 2nd service repair biz, and needed the workshop for techs).  I've converted that into motorcycle workshop, and keep most of the bikes and tools and chemicals in there.  It was just dumb luck that I happened to have a hobby that was condusive to that space.  As far as my wife of 15 years is concerned, she would agree with you entirely that I have a great wife (and I do, too).  As for letting me put a motorcycle in the house, she would say I have so many shortcomings which try her soul that a motorcycle inside pales in comparison [B)] .  I would say 'better a fast motorcycle in the house than a fast redhead' (you can tell what she has to put up with - hehehe.

Yes, empty nesters (my wife has 3 boys who are already gone) as soon as my daughter heads to KU.   I'm encouraged that you seem to have lived through  the separation and adjusted to it.  I got full custody of her only 5 years ago, so maybe I just didn't get enough days with her under my roof.  But, time marches on.  How old is your son?

How far along on the '72 are you?  

ps - I was sorry to see Maddux get traded from the Cubs ... my favorite pitcher ever.  And I was furious to see him go to the Dodgers - as a Willie Mays worshipper growing up, rooting for the Giants, I developed a pathological dislike for the Dodgers (also my best childhood friend's baseball hero was Roberto Clemente, and we hated the Dodgers with all of our hearts ,when we found out that the only reason that Clemente and Mays didn't both play in the outfield for the Giants was because the Dodgers didn't want that to happen, so they offered Clemente a bigger bonus in the early 50's, with no intention of bringing him up through their organization, but only to shelf him so the Giants couldn't get him.    Aaaaaargh!!!

Larry Seale
I choose to ride