A engine wiseco piston P/N

[Fred Deagostino]

Greetings all,
 V416 is a standard bore iron cyl. 1251-5A. I'm searching for a 54.5 piston kit and have the Sachs P/N. Past posts from back around '09 says that the Wisco # would be 162P2. 'Just a sanity check on that Wiseco #. Is that correct for a 54.5 (.020) Wiseco?
 Our suppliers are out of them so it's off to Ebay land and I'd hate to make a mistake there. Thanks in advance...,  Fred

V416 OneMoreTime

[3putt]

Fred, I think a Wiseco 162 is for a 100cc eng and not a 125.   Nelson McCullough

[joe novak]

Whenever I select a new piston, I always keep in mind the availability of piston rings for later service.   Also, when buying a piston, check to be sure if the wrist pin and circlips are included, unless you already have these parts.   joe

[thrownchain]

Wiseco 168 is for Penton Sachs

[gooddirt]

Is AL B out of  both 54.25 mm and 54.5mm?

[Fred Deagostino]

Thanks you guys!  'Good thing I checked. I see the 162 series is for the 100. I missed that. And I will need the pin and fresh rings too. I'm going to check into the 168 Wiseco # but in the meantime I'm reading some disturbing things about Wiseco's seizing.  That, I do not need! This is the first this engine's ever been down since '68 and if it weren't for the .006 skirt clearance it could go right back in there.
The Sachs piston (erring on the side of caution) might be the sensible thing for my purposes. I'd like to know all your collective thoughts on that one.
 Al's out of 54.5's, so's Terry Everett, Jake Fischer might have one (call back in a week), and I have an email out to GenuineNOS as we speak, and of course the Ebay search. I have everything else needed sitting here in a box except a piston kit.
 Your once proud owner of a complete first year production S/T survivor is right about now wishing he was the proud owner of a '69 or later. My fault. I guess I've owned and/or been in touch with this bike for so long I took it for granted that time was standing still for us both. Yet another strategic error! [B)] Sheeesh...,  Fred

V416 OneMoreTime

[joe novak]

Fred, Have you considered replacing the piston with a new Std. bore one for "fit" before you decide to bore the cylinder?  Maybe the piston skirt is worn a few thousandths of an inch (and they do wear....).   Other POG members chime in here, but I think the piston to wall clearance should be honed to about 1 1/2 to 2 thousandths of an inch for the 100cc Sachs.  I would assume the 125cc Sachs might be closer to 2.   Brian, Doug, Jerry, Kip, and others, please help us out here!    joe

[DKWRACER]

You could send the piston to Swaintech and have it coated, adios, Tom Brosius

[Fred Deagostino]

Joe and Tom, thanks for that info. As yet I've heard nothing back from Genuinenos and I'll should be getting a yeah or nay from Jake this wkend. Those failing I just may have to go to Swaintech (never heard of them by the way). It also occurred to me that we used to knurl piston skirts back in machine shop days and that fixture may still be kicking around. 'Serves the same purpose on mildly worn pistons. I'll be checking into both. I need to go recheck the cyl. to see how much if any taper is in the bore. Thanks again for the glimmer of hope!  Fred

V416 OneMoreTime

[slvrbrdfxr]

Fred,
I used the Swaincoat method on the piston of my 68 steeltanker V0144 to keep the bike on its original standard bore. It worked just fine but only did this because the bike was not going to be raced. If you are only going be using your bike like I do as a pit cruiser then in my opinion its the way to proceed. Keep us posted on what you decide.
Dave McCullough

http://swaintech.com/race-coatings/

[Fred Deagostino]

Dave, Thanks.  I did check into swaintech's site and it looks like a promising alternative to a new bore. They talk about a heavy PC-9 skirt coating (up to .004)which would be sufficient, but also state that this needs to be 'polished' afterward by the customer. I'd need to know a bit more about this process and will if I do go this route.
 I did check my bore today but since my inside mic set is missing the one adapter I need for this bore I had to do with a cursory check with a vernier caliper which shows only .001" between the clean bore (above the rings) and the bottom of the skirt. 'Nice, except I still need to find the wear below the slight ridge before I can consider only skirt/wall clearance as my primary problem. That, and waiting for that one last check about a fresh piston has me on hold for the nest couple of days.
 While it will never be raced it will get at least some judicious thrashing while I try to relive my youth. From there, when I'm 'toes up' it goes to my son who loves the thing and knows it's whole history (he's also an excellent wrench). 'Point being, I want it as right/original/dependable as I can possibly get it before I kick off[8D]
 Thanks again for the first hand info. on the Swaintech approach. It's that type of input I'm looking for as I explore the limited options.  Cheers..,  Fred

V416 OneMoreTime

[OUCWBOY]

Fred,
I have never used a Wiseco piston on anything, but have heard that the red boxed Wiseco were better for the Sachs engines than the bule/green boxed pistons.

Donny Smith
Paragould, AR

[Fred Deagostino]

Donny, I came across that recently myself somewhere. I was already getting a bit leery of the whole Wiseco thing based on comments found while searching for a solution for my own problem. The 'heads up' is very much appreciated.
 If it comes to pass that I do need to replace my piston I think I will do my best to hold out for the Sachs.
 As a side note, I just recently talked to a very respected and talented guy on the topic of the Wiseco's and his approach re: the seizing issues was that:
A: increase the clearance past Wisco's number.
B: Heat and cool the new piston several times (450 deg. F) before    installing.
C: Always warm the engine completely before putting it under load.
  These things being related to the differences in the molecular structure of a forged piston vs cast in a 2 stroke air cooled application.
  'Just food for thought, 'not championing a cause.
 Again, thanks for the input on my own dilemma..,   Fred

V416 OneMoreTime

[firstturn]

Fred,
  As far as using the Wiseco it is fine if you aren't going to race it and if you are going to race it and it is cast just make the bore larger that you would for a forged piston.  That is what I have been doing since the 70's and it has worked for me.  No Rocket Science here.

Ron Carbaugh

[Fred Deagostino]

Thanks Ron, understood.  'Old automotive machinists line (never actually put into practice and certainly not said in front of customers)
"It'll run longer loose than it will tight"

V416 OneMoreTime