Bent kick starter

[Scott Sappington]

I believe I bent a new aftermarket kick starter assy while starting a 74 250. Anyone have or came across this issue? Assy sitting on engine kick starter shaft properly but now it rubs and hangs up on air cleaner side cover? Any suggestions

[Jason Rowland]

Hi, Scott - you might want to limit your Wheaties input - try using a leg with a few less foot pounds of torque.  Get it? LEG...FOOT POUNDS?
Yeah, I know....

[seanguthrie]

I've bent 2 so far.  Plan to kick much easier this season once I purchase my 3rd for the 250.

74 250 Hare scramble
73 CMF 6day
68 6day V213

[454MRW]

I prefer to paint or fix up originals. The repops are not near as strong. Mike

Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1980 KTM 175-400'S
1975 Can Am 175 TNT & 77 250 Black Widow
1979 Husqvarna OR390
1976-78 RM & 77-79 PE Suzuki's
1974 CR250M 07 CR125R 79 CR250R

[Scott Sappington]

Thanks Gents, I did see the disclaimer late last night. I'm 150LBS and maybe some raw fuel leaked into the case after a 100 miles in the trailer? A bit of a kick back, ankle took a hit. Technique? Is a full stroke from the top and hitting the foot peg the problem? Is everyone kicking from the side with the right leg? Scotty "Rat"

[454MRW]

This is not the first that I have heard about these aftermarket kick levers being weak and bending just from normal use. Gary Ellis and I disussed it at some length. I am sure  there are individuals that have bent a stock 250/400 lever, but I never have, even after stripping the splines and resorting to welding the lever to the shaft.
I have the utmost respect for Al and all that he does for Penton. Having items reproduced is not an easy undertaking, as my previous employer still does it for a living in the Corvette industry. Quality control is very difficult to maintain, especially out of the country. Sub-standard materials and improper heat treating is too often the norm. Mike

Michael R.iWinter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1980 KTM 175-400'S
1975 Can Am 175 TNT & 77 250 Black Widow
1979 Husqvarna OR390
1976-78 RM & 77-79 PE Suzuki's
1974 CR250M 07 CR125R 79 CR250R

[Scott Sappington]

I'm not throwing anyone under the bus, the kick starter was installed on the bike when purchased. Hey, I spent a decent amount $$ at Al's shop this afternoon. Was surprised when it bent. Was wondering if it was my doing's. Been turning a wrench since the early 70's, I've made a lot of mistakes. Some were very expensive lessons. Scotty

[seanguthrie]

Both of the ones I've bent have been back in muddy woods during VXC races.  I'm sure adrenaline and frustration had a lot to do with mine.  I'm going to try and figure out a way to prevent my next one from suffering the same fate.

74 250 Hare scramble
73 CMF 6day
68 6day V213

[454MRW]

Scott,
There is a re-buildable original kick starter lever on eBay with a Buy it now reduced to $40 with free shipping. I would buy it myself if it is still there after next paycheck, if you don't. Replacing the detent pin and spring is a simple procedure, and the pin can be made from an old drill bit ground to a point on one end and rounded on the other. Mike
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181322726721?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1980 KTM 175-400'S
1975 Can Am 175 TNT & 77 250 Black Widow
1979 Husqvarna OR390
1976-78 RM & 77-79 PE Suzuki's
1974 CR250M 07 CR125R 79 CR250R

[Scott Sappington]

Mike, Thanks my Man, but I missed 'er. Went to the other coast near Coco Beach to race and pulled in late. Sand so deep in the corners I believe I got a glimpse of China! I'm always on the hunt for parts guys so contact me. I'll be @ Reddick National in FLA next month. Scotty "Rat" Sappington

[ALB]

There are times when I wish that I had a time machine in order to go back and re-do some things. The kick start levers is one of them. I supplied a sample of a n.o.s. lever as a sample to have these made. You assume that they would have tested the sample to see what the hardness of the steel was and heat treat the new ones to the same tolerances. But, that is something that has to be specified when placing the order and what I learned - after receiving the shipment.

I warn anyone buying these for the 400s that the lever will bend if there is too much compression. I recommend that the deck height on the 400 be set up to the 1977 GS specs when using one of these levers.

This is the first that I am hearing of these levers bending on the 250 engines. However, I can see these levers bending if the deck height on the 250s are not set to specs and have too much compression. I get many calls from guys looking to purchase "a" base gasket for a top end job. This clues me in that they do not have a manual or any specs and don't have a clue as to what a "deck height" is and that there are 5 different thicknesses of base gaskets to obtain the proper specs. This also is an indication that there are some 250's being rebuilt improperly by those who do not have manuals and I did not talk to.

So, all that I can suggest is that the 250 engines be set up and do not exceed the deck height specs (too much compression).




Alan Buehner

[seanguthrie]

Al, I too would love a time machine!  I'm going to take my older bent one and see if I can tweak it to still be useful.  The current one on my bike is bent, but not nearly as bad as the original repop that was on my bike when I bought it.  I remember the exact moment it bent in the woods at Barber this past fall.  It was just the icing on the cake of the problems I was experiencing that day.

Needless to say when I get back from the race in Louisiana this weekend I'll be getting in contact with you for a parts order and I'll probably try another kicker lever as I think I've learned the error of my ways in using too much force on it.  That 250 really does kick over pretty easy.  Sometimes I forget that, being a Triumph Bonneville street rider.  I usually have to kick the tar out of that bike to her to fire.

74 250 Hare scramble
73 CMF 6day
68 6day V213

[George Swan]

Although I have nothing to do with either Al's or the originals I suspect the problem with Al's repops is two fold. I play in this stuff in my professional life, I am a industrial engineer. The originals, at least on my MC5 400 are made from forgings. I doubt the repops are.The act of making a forging in itself makes a part resistant to bending because the grains of the part are aligned during the forging process. This is one of the main points of pursuing a forging vs. a casting or bar stock. Next I don't believe the tempering was performed on the new versions. For example take a flat spring. When the spring steel heated red-orange and let to air cool you can bend it into any shape you desire. THis is how the spring is shaped. If you take the same spring steel and heat it again and immediately quench it in water it will no longer bend but instead break. It is only when you heat the spring again after quenching to 300ish degrees does the tempering take hold and the spring demonstrate it's ability to return to the shape it originally had. This is no different. If you know the material the kickers were made from and it is able to be tempered the kickers would flex as designed and return to the original shape. I suspect this to be the issue. Hardness of material has nothing to do with bending other than it would break instead of bending.

Al I have a binder full of "if only I had a time machine" moments. Oh well this is how we all learn.

1976 Penton MC5 400 Frame # 1871

[Scott Sappington]

Vintage bikes, regardless of the brand, were all in this together, I understand the ups & downs of older stuff. Everything I own is Vintage (old) cars, guitars, race bikes. I'm glad to still be able to throw my leg over one and twist the throttle. Scotty "Rat"