Aluminum after market swing arms for Penton's

[john durrill]

Does anyone have an NOS swingarm bushing  for the 72-74 100 ,125 Pentons that could be sent to Dom?
 he can produce a replacement for us.
 I will buy 2 sets of the replacements. anyone else?
 Larry would you have 1 you could loan him long enough for the measurements to be made?
John & Peter


 

[Larry Perkins]

I spoke with Dom at length on the phone last night and I am sending him 4 frames and a swingarm bushing so that his tech work can begin.  I think you guys will see cool things come from this guy.  Let's all remember that when his product comes up for sale.  He is definitely doing this as a labor of love and won't get rich off it.  Just remember love only goes so far.  Anyway this should fix him up with all the product he needs to put the calipers to it.

 

[rob w]

Thanks Larry.

 

[bigdanracer]

Lets not forget the the 76 and 77 year bikes, Word champion MX 250 and 400 MC-5s.
Thanks, Dan.

Posting 07/2002
Yucaipa CA.
Age 49, maintenance mechanic, two 77 Pentons, 250,400 MC-5s.

[Larry Perkins]

Dom has located some local guys with frames so that will cover that part without shipping.  I am sending bushings to him today so he can work on that part.  His plan is to also do 76 and 77 bikes but will do the 73 style and 74 style first because of more demand.  I too will be a player on both he says he will do this in stages.  From what I have seen and heard from him it will be worth the wait.

 

[chris richardson]

Do the MC5s! help Pentons retain AHRMA dominance!

Chilly Pepper
Historic 500 nat'l champ

 

[Dwight Rudder]

I find it strange that POG members would even consider putting a foregn ( aluminum ) swingarm on a Vintage Penton. It would ruin the collectability of the bike. Save the after market trick parts for modern bikes. Leave our Vintage bikes vintage.
IMO
Dwight

7 time ISDT / E medalist
7 time National Enduro Class Champion.

[lobo6y]

quote:
I find it strange that POG members would even consider putting a foregn ( aluminum ) swingarm on a Vintage Penton. It would ruin the collectability of the bike. Save the after market trick parts for modern bikes. Leave our Vintage bikes vintage.
IMO
Dwight

7 time ISDT / E medalist
7 time National Enduro Class Champion.

 

[Larry Perkins]

Collectability and AHRMA racing are two different animals.  A early 1972 Jackpiner came with an Amal carb but if I was going to ride or race one I would not be caught dead with it.  In racing trick has always been a path some have followed and AHRMA and the spirit of winning insures that will continue.  I agree with Dwight if you want to keep the $$ value in collecting then original is where it is at.  If you want faster and lighter for the sake of victories then trick is where it is at.  This is a good example of two different trains of thought that exist in the POG and Vintage.

 

[lobo6y]

Larry, Dwight,
There is also a middle ground between the two ends of the spectrum, and it is actually fairly wide.  AHRMA MX is there "to preserve, use and show the machines.... preserve the feel, sight and sound..."  (Dick Mann's words in AHRMA rulebook).
My middle ground is stock major parts and modifications commonly available in the era - a little (not much) tougher than the rulebook standard, but that's where I draw the line.  Hence I have Ceriani and CZ forks and hubs (both available in '65) on my Premier bikes. My Buls and Pentons are pretty much bone stock (but tuned).  I try to keep the bikes and my outward apppearance "vintage", because I really love the old bikes, the racing, and the crowd that does this stuff!
Point is, you can be competitive and live within the spirit of the rules, primarily because about 80% is rider anyway.
My humble opinion.
dave

 

[Dwight Rudder]

I would honestly like to know what the real weight difference in aluminum and chrome moly swingarms would be. I would bet there wouldn't be enough difference to count. I don't believe too many folks used aluminum swingarms in 1974 so I also feel this goes against the spirit of things. If you want trick go fast parts that weren't used in 1974 , then I don't think that Vintage racing is right for you. I don't think an aluminum swingarm will make any diffence in who will win. Now if you want to make a replica of a swingarm that was used then to replace a damaged one I say GREAT.
IMO,
Dwight

7 time ISDT / E medalist
7 time National Enduro Class Champion.

[lobo6y]

Dwight,
I'm strongly with you in spirit. I raced in CA, TX and FL in the early seventies and there were a very few aluminum swing arms on a scant few bikes, but I don't remember seeing any on Pentons ( I could be wrong - memory is the second thing to go).
Your statement that "If you want trick go fast parts that weren't used in 1974 , then I don't think that Vintage racing is right for you " - I agree with you 100%!
AHRMA has made it legal for some (since some bikes did, in fact need and use the aluminum awing arm - thus it is "of the era"),  but this has made it legal for all - not necessarily wrong - just a lot more than we had then.  
I'll still stand by the statement that the rider makes all the difference.  You could ride a tricycle and beat me Dwight.  I guess it comes down to the level of tradition and history we want to re-live and recreate.  
An unabashed traditionalist,
dave

 

[Larry Perkins]

I basically agree with you guys, but not completely.  In forward mount position 74 and 75 Pentons will eventually bend the swingarm and I believe the extra rigidity of aluminum might help this.  I love Post-Vintage even more than Vintage and my MC 5 back then and now can and will bend a swingarm.  Granted I am the guy that got his pic in Cycle News last year at the Berwick National 15 feet off the ground doubling 30 feet on the back straight but that is PostVintage and there were four or five big doubles at I think Portland also.  I love the air but a better swingarm would help that bike and there were alot of them by 77.  I won both those Nationals because I doubled and the other riders did not.  I guess then the rider part comes in but if I broke my swingarm I would be screwed.  The rider can't go too fast with the bike in two pieces.  I can vouch for that from personal experience.  I did break a footpeg at Portland on the 400 and had to limp around the second moto like an old lady.  Therefore I now use stainless steel footpegs that are wide like modern pegs.  

Anyway trick is often mental too and I believe in the principle that sooner or later the that wins is the one that thinks he can.

One place I will not compromise to Vintage standards is in safety.  In 74 there were no body shells, neck rolls, high tech boots, titanium knee braces, and lightweight full coverage helmets.  You won't see me race without them though.  If I spill I don't have the body I had in 74 so I want the protection of 2002.

Isn't debate fun?  Next.

 

[Dwight Rudder]

Hummmmmmm.........Larry, somehow I don't remember Doubles back in 1974.
HEHEHE
Dwight

7 time ISDT / E medalist
7 time National Enduro Class Champion.

[Larry Perkins]

Dwight,

I was talking about my Post Vintage Historic bike which was through 1977.  Doubles in 74?  They were just showing up.  Seems like I remember a small one at the Second Superbowl of Motocross and I think that was 74.  My memory is foggy from then though because I had a hefty concussion that year from a trip over the bars.  What was more prominent on the National Circuit from 73 to 75 was the BIG jump.  Mid-Ohio had one that was like jumping off a house and the Peristyle in L.A. Coliseum was like falling into the abyss as was the Gravity Cavity at Lake Whitney Texas.  I broke a swingarm at Mid-Ohio in 125 practice but I can't remember when.  Somewhere between 73 and 75 I think.  Mickey Boone flew over that jump and you could feel the ground shake when Tripes landed off of it.  

Trick swingarm might have been good then but more travel is what was needed and of course just like History it came and came fast.