Help ID'ing my barn find?

[Glennster]

The frame number is 54 410 78679
It appears to have had a headlight and tail light at one time.
But the wiring has been butchered.
Any info is appreciated.

Glenn Bruce

[Michele Tomat]

Your bike should be a 1974 250 Hare Scramble made in October, with red tank and plastic fenders.

[Larry Perkins]

Made in October is a 1975 model.  With KTM everything past August is the next year model.

Larry P

[454MRW]

Would that be considered a 74 1/2 model? I know the spec sheet states that 74 and 1/2 started in April, but when did it end?

Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1978-1979 MX-6 175 & 250 KTM's
1976-78 125-400 RM's & 79 PE250 Suzuki & 2012 DR650
2007 CR125R Honda
1977 MC250 Maico

[Glennster]

It has a blue tank, looks like a 175.
I got the head off, the piston is REAL stuck.
What is the bore on a 250 vs. 175?

Glenn Bruce

[Daniel P. McEntee]

With out looking up the exact size and you are measuring with a ruler, a 250 is close to 2.5 inches, I think. A 175 piston would be nearer 2 inches. That should be close enough to identify it. I love these kinds of mysteries!
  Merry Christmas!
   Dan McEntee

[skiracer]

You can count the fins on the cylinder to determine the bore size.  Seven fins is a 175, and 8 fins is a 250.....

1976 MC 5 Original Owner
1976 Penton 175 XC
1985 20' Hi Point trailer

[Glennster]

The numbers on the right side of the motor are 4-207539
There are 7 fins
The bore is 2.5'
The top fin has a 2 stamped in it, it also reads -
KTM 51/52 300 00500
Made in Austria

Doesn't make sense does it?

Glenn Bruce

[Larry Perkins]

Mike, 74.5 models started coming in April and would have been done in August.  Though the 75 was the same bike.

Larry P

[454MRW]

Sometime in late 74 or 75-76 the frame number starting with 54- were used for both 175s and 250s. Often the right hand number on the engine is taken from the wrong place. It should be right above the ignition cover below the cylinder fins by the front engine mount Boss. A late 74 175 should start with 4-52 and a 250 would start with 4-54. Mike

[Glennster]

Did they ever make a blue 250?
Is it possible to slide a 250 jug on a 175 motor?
I thought I had a survivor, looks like I might have a bastard....crap.
Does the info on the top/rear cylinder fin tell you anything?
Would pictures of anything specific help?

Glenn Bruce

[Larry Perkins]

There were blue 250s on the West coast.  Can not put a 175 jug on a 250.  

Larry P

[Daniel P. McEntee]

Hi Glenn;
  There are others on the list here far, far more versed at model identification than me, but I think that most will agree that there was no such thing as a standard Penton. You can't compare one to the other like you can Japanese bikes, which I think you said most of your experience was? If they ran out of one component at the factory, they sourced another. If a dealer swiped a tank off another in stock bike to fix another, he could have replaced it with whatever he could get tat the time. And like Larry says, West coast bikes seem to be a bread unto themselves sometimes. I think I have read on the list here that they got bikes from Austria in the last two years of Penton production that had all KTM markings on them. Might have even been something about that in Ed Youngblood's book about John Penton. If you don't have a copy of that book or a copy of the John Penton movie, by all means get them, as they will explain a lot of interesting history and behind the scenes info you won't find anywhere else. Well worth having on your book shelf, coffee table or where ever you keep such stuff!!

   Merry Christmas!
   Dan McEntee

[Glennster]

I have seen the movie, it was fantastic.
While I am on old Penton guy, the Penton's have not been on my radar for decade's. I've been chasing and collecting early 70's Yamaha MX's and enduro's for 2 - 3 years. I just bought property (10 acres) and I'm building a Toy Barn for bikes and cars. My plan is to build an old guys MX track so my buddies and I can do a little riding.
  That said, I have not heard of Ed Youngblood's book, I will get it!
Thanks!

Glenn Bruce

[Daniel P. McEntee]

Glenn;
   You don't have to look far for the book. Both it and the movie DVD are available through the POG list here!
  Good luck and have fun!
  Dan McEntee