Hercules GS250 Information?

[pozzaman]

I found a Sachs Motor and some parts that appear to be for a 1976-77 Hercules GS 250. The lot included a complete 7A motor, the exhaust, the plastic side covers, a tank, wheels with Sachs breaks (I believe these are correct) and a set of Marzoochi Forks. One of the most interesting factors concerning this motorcycle is the forks were cut off the frame, and the frame numbers are still intact. The serial numbers seem lower than any I have seen that have come to sale and was wondering if anyone had any information pertaining to that. I do have pictures of what I have, however had issues uploading them to the forum. I would be happy to e mail them to anyone interested. Thank You, and hopefully I get some guidance with this odd rare machine.

anthony pozza

[skiracer]

Get hold of Helmut Clasen.  He is a former factory rider for Hercules, and can build those motors in his sleep.

1976 250 MC5 Original Owner
1976 Penton 175 XC

[Leo Keller]

If you will give me the VIN I can tell you the production date. The 250 cc starts with 470 and has nine digits. Best you send me an email: [email protected]

[fischercycle]

Hello,(LEO KELLER) you might be interested in all of my Hercules parts , over 50 pistons for  125 to 350cc,  rod kits gaskets clutch parts gears shafts brake shoes sprockets cables , we bought the Hercules stock from FRED DANGLE 1979  WHEN IN OHIO, AND FROM PENTON IMPORTS , SO WE STILL HAVE A LARGE SUPPLY OF NOS,ALL  ORIGINAL PARTS, SO IF ANY ONE OUT THERE WANTS TO BUY THE HOLE INVENTORY LET ME KNOW. will need a large TRUCK, THANKS FOR LOOKING CALLS 412 999 1143 OR EMAIL [email protected]  JAKE

[Leo Keller]

Hi Jake,
thank you for your offer, but a large truck would not help. I need a Boeing 747 because I am located in Germany

[fischercycle]

HELLO, MR. KELLER, YOU CAN COME OVER ON A 747 , BUT WHEN YOU LEAVE BACK AFTER PACKING ALL THE HERCULES GOOOODIES YOU WILL NEED A 757 PRIVATE PLANE AND WE CAN ARRANGE THAT FOR YOU AT THE PGH. AIRPORT, BUT WILL NEED AT LEAST A 30 DAY NOTICE BEFORE YOU COME,THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR REPLY, HAVE A, GOOD CHRISTMAS AND MANY MORE GOOD NEW YEARS. (AND KEEP RIDING TO KEEP THOSE YOUNG BONES LOOSE) JAKE

[marsattacks]

Hi Anthony if you are able to post  photos please do.  I have a 250gs-7 and might be interested in the motor.  Much would depend on condition.   Anyone reading this with a set of cases please let me know if interested in a sale or swap for Hercules or Penton parts.  I don't think my cases are bad — just being conservative.  Thanks John

Mars Attacks!
68 Planetary/Lunar Lander (very sadly, sold with Gamma death-ray to the Italians)
78 400 MC5 also sadly sold
79 space rock shox bike

[pozzaman]

Hey everyone I just wanted to update this thread here. Just picked up a 1977 Sachs Hercules gs175 complete and running in Wisconsin. I never thought I would find an original one intact and now that I have the bike and these parts along with the GS250 motor I think I am going to keep it. I would really like to post up some pictures however am having difficulty posting pictures on the forum. I have plenty available!!! And any help on my little project would be much appreciated.

anthony pozza

[Daniel P. McEntee]

I have a 77 Hercules GS 250-7speeder and had a '77 r '76 GS-175 7speeder at one time also. I bought the 77 after seeing it at the 2000 or 2001 ISDTRR at Park Hills MO, and reading about the bike and people's adventures with them on the VINDURO list. I had been looking for a 250 Penton going all the way back to 1975, literally! I wanted a 250 Penton back then to move up from my '72 125 Six Days, and made frequent stops into Dave Mungenast's Dirt Bike Headquarter's that was his original motorcycle dealership building a few block down the street from where the Mungenast Motorsports Museum is today. At the time, Dave said he just could not get his hands on any and didn't know when he would be able to, so he encouraged me to buy a '75 Husky 250WR instead. ( I never regretted this, and still have the bike in original ready to ride condition today!) Fast forward to the year s 1999 and 2000 and the dirt bike itch hit again after a long lay off and the search for a 250 Penton began again. I couldn't find any project bikes, and couldn't find anyone willing to part with a ready to ride bike.
   While at the ISDTRR in Park Hills, I looked over a really nice 250 Hercules, and saw a lot of similarities and began to look into the brand. There were a few familiar names on VINDURO that were factory riders in enduros back in the day that filled me in on some aspects of the bike and I read an old Cycle World magazine article about them from back in the day. All this encouraged me to buy the bike, as I thought it would be as close as I was going to get to a 250 Penton! The GS versions are wicked fast but are heavy. They were designed and built for Six Days competition so are heavy duty in the right places. This is a turn off to a lot of people though, but not much you can do to lighten the bike. The exhaust weighs a ton, but is very quiet, like you need for Six Days. The 7 speed gear box keeps you right tow pretty busy, and I was informed that "it had a gear for every speed you wanted to go!" It came with a Bing carb and mine still has it on it, but has been rejetted to get me some more low end and mid-range throttle response. The engine flows a TREMENDOUS amount of air. I rode the bike for about a year or so just as I got it to get familiar with it and form some of my own opinions. When hard on the throttle in higher gears, you could hear the air box moaning. I just felt that with the stock air box, which had some good points and bad, that the engine couldn't breath like it wanted to. Some conversations with other Herc owners confirmed my suspicions. Speedy Clausen Dwight Rudder and Rick Grant were very helpful with information and suggestions.
  I rode the bike in stock trim at the 2003 ISDTRR in Massachusetts and while there was advised by Billy Uhl that they were a great bike but did have a vibration problem. He said that the swing arm bearings are tapered roller bearings like you wheel on your car, and they needed to be REALLY tightened with two sockets and breaker bars to relieve a lot of it. I got out what I had with me and was able to crank them down quite a bit, and it was noticeably smoother. I rode the event even though I had a bad cold, and managed to get stuck in a mud bog about half way through the first day, and houred out there completely exhausted. But I was impressed even more with the bike and decided to address it's issues.
  The engine is unique with it's bath tube style cases. This is a blessing and a curse with magnesium cases if they sit around too long with no oil and moisture present, so check those carefully. You will notice that both the bikes have no front engine mount, and the 175 has head braces to stabilize it. It vibrates much less than the 250 because of this. The last year or two of production they added front engine mounts. The main engine mount is underneath the engine and one at the rear. Check these frequently and keep them tight. The frame plate for the bottom mount is too thin, and it acts like a spring board when the piston goes up and down, and this is the source of a lot of the vibration. Later model cases with from mounts cure this issue but are rare. Some addressed this on the early 250's by using a 175 pipe, which exits the engine and goes straight up over the cylinder before routing down the left side of the bike. Then you could use a set of head braces like the 175 does. I was determined to find another way without butchering up the bike, so I got a set of the proper head bolt/studs from Speedy so I could mount the braces , or as Sachs called them, head stays. I copied the head stays from my 175 from standard steel tubing. The left side mounted easily using existing holes. On the right side, the pipe deader curled up that side and was in the way. I simply turned the head stay around and mounted it towards the front steering head gusset, drilled a hole for it and mounted it there/ The head stays go in opposite directions, but they still work like they should and REALLY cut down on the rest of the vibration. After riding my bike with that modification and riding other stock Herc 250's, mine was like a sewing machine!
  Next thing to tackle was the air box and carburetor issues. Another VINDURO member told me he drill holes in the top of the air box under the seat. The air box was huge, but had a very small inlet under the seat that restricted air flow. I made sure the seat wasn't blocking it off, then I drilled as may 1/2" holes as I could in that flat area near it, then formed an aluminum sheet metal slash guard to cover them a bit to deflect water. I also formed a sort of "under cover" to help seal the air box where the side cover went on to help seal it against splashes. I then ordered up a supply of idle jets, slide needles and needle jets from Bing International. I mixed and matched stuff until I got the run I wanted in the lower gears and at mid throttle. It's not a trials bike by any means, but is much easier to ride with a bit more bottom end and mid range, and is still wicked fast topped out in 7th gear! This is the only bike I have ever had that can out run the float bowl, that's how much it flows at high throttle! In the old articles I read, it was stated that the guys racing them in the desert out west experienced this, and just drilled the carb body though the fuel nipple and controlled the excess with the petcocks during stops and such. I didn't go to that extreme, just made sure to close off the choke a bit when on the pavement and breathed the engine every now and then. Speedy would just tell you, "you know why they call them Bings? That is the sound they make when they hot the trash can! Put a Lectron on it!
   After all that work it was like a different bike and worth the effort. Like I said at the start, it is heavy, but in the right places, and it handles like a dream. I won my first and only gold medal on it at a ISDTRR at Zink Ranch and that was after getting lost on Saturday, riding the Sunday Loop by mistake, and still got back to the first gas stop a few minutes before my minute came up! I ran out of gas just as I cam e into sight of the gas check! That was cutting it too close! There are some other bits and pieces I can tell you if you discover things as you rebuild the bikes. Speedy says modern KTM foot pegs are a bolt on recommendation but I haven't done that yet. I had heard a rumor during this experience that John Penton may have consulted a bit on this bike but don't know for sure. But like I said, it does have some similarities. I would suggest reading up on the brand as much as you can, but one source, the VINDURO archives, are no longer available. there was a ton of discussion on that list about the brand. Leo Keller here on this forum is another source of information along with, of course, Speedy Clausen. Enjoy the journey while you explore this beast and compare it to your Pentons as you go along and I think you'll see some similarities also.
  Type at you later,
  Dan "PunkinHead" McEntee

[pozzaman]

Daniel McEntee
I have the 175 running with an Electron carburetor as it is. It did not come with a Bing when I purchased it. Besides the plastics on the bike everything is present and in good shape. I really am excited that I found the 175 the way I found it. As far as putting the 250 in, the 250 has the same head bolts on the top of the motor that look identical to the 175 I am not sure if that is a later model motor or if the looks are deceiving. As far as vibration problems go do I have other problems to consider besides the motor mounts. Really appreciate your reply on this thread, the help has been really appreciated and your story has motivated me even more. As far as completion goes, I hope to be running this machine by the summer which will give me just enough time to recover from my most recent shoulder surgery.
To anyone who would like to see some pictures I can send them via e mail my e mail is [email protected] Really hope I can eventually transfer the 250 motor into the 175 frame as from the view that I see it will fit. Did the later motors have similar mounts to the 175? Clauseon i have contacted and he has given me alot of resources to use to aide me.

anthony pozza

[Try327]

Guys I have what I believe is a1977 -78 GS 175. It is a 100% original, paint, tires, everything. It has not been rode in a long time and it is time to sell it. If anyone has an interest please call me and I can go over the bike with you. Thanks Greg 216-906-9253

[skiracer]

I have a center stand to fit the 76-77 frames if anyone is interested...

1976 250 MC5 Original Owner
1976 Penton 175 XC