400 KTM on the Road??

[Danny Metz]

Have any of you ever used an early KTM or Penton on the road?  I am talking about a commute to work of 15 miles on good roads (50 mph speed limit).  I have a 1978 KTM 400 MC5 that is in real nice condition.  Can I add lights, dual purpose tires, tags and put it on the road?  What will original lighting cost, and can it be found? Or do I adapt an aftermarket setup?   My Motoplat has addition wires, and I am assuming it is for lights .. .  I all ready have the GS fuel tank.  What are the problems I will run into?  I have a machine shop . . .  Thanks!

Danny

[thrownchain]

You really need to talk to your local DMV and find out what you can and can't do. It varies from state to state. You'll probably have to meet minimum safety standards and may need a valid title. But that would be a good ride.   Good luck.[^]

[Big Mac]

I found a '77 Pen/KTM GS6 250 for $100 (nasty) a couple years ago and brought it back to life as a quasi-dualsport. All stock with just a Preston Petty headlight, a UFO-brand universal enduro rear fender, an Acerbis cheapo mirror on the bars and Michelin DOT-approved knobs. Our DMV (Oregon) is pretty lax, but rulebook says hi-lo headlight needed, horn, & turn-signals only if '72 or newer (and if none, no riding after dark).

I previously had taken my '73 Harescrambler to the DMV and slid by, getting a plate issued with no horn, no hi-lo headlight (couldn't find a hi-lo bulb to fit PP shell) and no signals. Only drove the HS the 5 miles to the DMV and back on pavement at speed. The Motoplat puts out enough juice to barely pass muster to act as a daytime driving light, but brake light is dim at 6v and then only with revs, headlight reach good only at slower speeds at night. Tried a 6v horn, never could get it to beep...might have been sufficient juice only when revved, which then drowned out any sound being made.

Haven't tried my DMV luck yet on the '77 250, but opted to "borrow" the plate off the '73 for a 160 mile dualsport last summer which included 60 miles of high-speed pavement. What I learned:

* A 250 doesn't pack much punch against hills and wind-resistance of 50+ mph. The RPM range to get power out of the mill is higher than I want to run it for extended periods. A 400 geared high should be much better, but a dirt-designed 2-stroke of that size is probably not best to make 20+ mile pavement runs on too often.
* The 'roundness' of wheels is really not an issue offroad, but shows up at 50+ mph, as do knobbies--Vibration is high at speed, and non-balanced offroad wheels with knobs is downright scary over 55mph. Forget being able to see behind you with a mirror at speed. More street-oriented tires are probably better if any higher speeds are going to be needed.
* In '77-'78 I think original headlights on GS were PP aftermarket, as was the rear fender/tailight. New can be had for about $100 and $60 each, used for about $50 together. Not many 6v bulbs out there, but 12v work and supposedly don't blow as often due to variations in voltage. A voltage regulator would likely help, not sure which ones, or the cost. A cheap aftermarket switch is out there for about $20 (need to look up source) but the original CEV are pretty much non-existent. If you go with turn signals and horn, likely need to rob off of another enduro or use some kit like Baja Designs sells.
* No other problems, but speed and distance wears things out pretty quick. My 250 is the boss on the trails and fireroads compared to the big bulky dualsports, but I felt like a kid on a Schwinn when we hit the main highway. I'd personally opt for a real streetbike for regular commuting, but never found one exciting enough to buy.

Hope this helps.   Mac

[Danny Metz]

Mac/TC, Thanks for the replies.  WOW, you have given me a LOT to think about!  I had considered the fact that the light output would be marginal, but since I don't plan any night riding, it would probably be OK.  Decent brake lights are pretty high on my priority list though .. .  Turn signals are not something I considered.  I will have to check with my DMV and see if hand signals will suffice.
I am beginning to think this isn't the best idea . .   FWIW, I do have a new(er) Harley, but am pretty particular about where I park it, and the bike parking at work is not exactly secure . . . I figured if the KTM was damaged, I have done all the restoration on it so it wouldn't be THAT big of a deal.  Thanks again for making me realize the shortcomings.

Danny

[John Ehrhart]

Ah--knobbies on pavement!
Reminds me of a GP at Phoenix International Raceway on my GS6 400. I hadn't road-raced yet so that was fun on the road course and the oval. Well, maybe more like scary. But when you're young 'n dumb...
At least they scooped out some ditches out of the desert and used the water trucks to make mud bogs for us. That made the pavement even more exciting.

John

PS---Mac: My '78 did not come with a PP headlight, but something probably made by Acerbis. It's quite stylish, too. Color-matched to the tank with a yellow number area.

[Big Mac]

Boys,
On the dim brake light issue...having a multi-position switch is a big challenge since most riders and state regs want you to have

1) Headlight off/taillight off/brake light when brakes on (dirt rider preference)
2) Daylight headlight/no taillight/brake light when brakes on,
3) Nighttime headlight/tailight on/brake light when brakes on

Since few if an control switches give this many options, not to mention hi/low beam if that is attempted, something's got to give. I figure I will do about nil night riding, unless I get caught out late at the convenience store run. So I eliminated the taillight option altogether, just combine-wired the taillight/brakelight into one, into the brakelight side element. Handlebar switch just turns headlight on-off. Or could be on-low-hi. The combined wire brake light is a lot brighter, can be kinda seen in the daytime with revs of any sort.

If I get caught out late or run to a friend's house after dark, I turn on the headlight and ride the brake pedal to keep the brake light on in place of taillight. Just a thought.

Agree on the lighting variations in '77-'78, although all seem to have been provided by aftermarket firms. Mine is a '77 westcoast version (blue 250, KTM stickers) and had PP front plate/light and fender. Have seen more from midwest that had the more common headlight/plate with the fork wrap-arounds. Lots of changes in the '78 versions too.

I say let the Harley get bashed, save the Penton/KTM. In 20 years I'm betting old Harleys will be like old VWs while Pentons will be in the Guggenheim.  Good luck!

[242]

I have a 1985 KTM 250 Military bike and have road it everwhere. I hav'nt used it for a couple years but just licensed it this week. It has the same Motoplat as the older Pentons and KTMs, 6 volt. I read in Dirt Bike one time about a fellow who put street tires on his 250 KTM and road it out west to a race, put on dirt tires, raced a Hare Scrambles, put the street tires back on and road it back out east. I think it was a 1980 or so bike. Also as an ex-dealer, all Penton and KTMs came with a licenseable title.

[OhioTed]

"Exciting" street bike?  Danny, the solution is quite simple, and is summed by up by the name "Duke".  Your 15 mile commute will never be the same again.  PS:  What's the level law enforcement presence on your route?  An old buddy of mine was pulled over while on his way home from dual-sportin' on a stone-stock KLR Kaw, with full street-legal equipment (blinkers, mirrors, and all), because the officer saw only a mud-covered dirt bike, not a fully legal road machine.  Also, ever try to explain DOT-legal knobbies to an officer?

[Danny Metz]

Hi guys.  I never expected this kind of response!  Thank you for all the replies.  

Mac, I live in SC where headlights are required "on" 24 hours a day.  I've never really thought about it, but the tail light on my Harley *must* burn all the time (like the headlight) since there is no switch or photo sensor to turn it on.  That means wiring would not be too complicated.  I have not checked with the DMV, but I believe turn signals are not necessary.  Mac, PLEASE, you're killing me with the "let the Harley get bashed" . .   Ugh, it makes me sick thinking about it!  But you are probably right . . .

Ted/John, law enforcement is present, but not overbearing. I have ridden this bike around my neighborhood on several occasions, and understand what you mean by excitement ...  One of the first mods I will have to make is to the OBNOXIOUS pipe on the bike now.  I believe it is factory, but the packing is nonexistent, and it makes a really ear splitting sound my neighbors just *love*.  I'll bet it would make the local law enforcement REALLY take notice . .  Not a good thing!  

Danny

[thrownchain]

Wiring for headlight on, tail light on and brake light when used is very easy. And if you get the right switch, you can turn the lights off when you don't need them. Very straight forward.

[AndyL]

Not to stray too far off topic:

Wouldn't one of the newer LED tail light bulbs be a good thing on a bike with a motoplat?

My resoning would be lower current draw and lower current required for a given light level would almost eliminate the "dim" taillight and leave more current for the headlight.

Or am I reaching too far..............

And I know the "right" thing to do would be an MzB ignition but until the motoplat "splats", I am going the cheap route.


Andy
#14u MOVMX and AHRMA
75 Jackpiner
92 KTM 300

[Danny Metz]

Andy,  I think the LED light is probably a good idea, but I have doubts that you will find a 6 volt LED bulb replacement.  Running a 12 volt LED bulb on 6 volts would probably produce no more illumination than a standard 6 volt bulb.  If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.  The Motoplat is 6 volt output, correct??  Oh, and FWIW, my original Motoplat did the "splat" thing years ago ...  I got a good used one from a later model KTM.

Danny

[desmond197]

Danny Good to see there is another Motocross Metz out there.
That was my nickname in high school. All the other guys were into MX and a was the lone enduro/Six Days Trials freak.
Please read my recent post and keep your Penton off the street.


Steve Metz