ahrma rules /sachs 6D engine

[chicagojerry]

have any of you sachs guys seen this thread going on the ahrma discussion board concerning the rules about the 6D engine? probably pretty interesting to a few folks on this site...  chi jer

[firstturn]

Actually it kind of senseless because who is going to know the difference between an A,B or D.  I know everone is going to talk about the V support in the fin area and the bolt on intake.  I am here to tell you the D isn't enough advantage to worry about.  AHRMA needs to be checking the 175cc bikes that are being run in the 125 class NOW....  The funny thing is this is possibly being done to penalize one person and all it will do is create a lot of confussion.  I would challenge anyone to tell me the real advantage of a D over a strong running B engine?  Oh, and one other thing, I think the rider has a little bit to do with the actual results of a Sachs engine against some of these other brands of bikes.

  Has anyone brought up the classification of the GS engine and how would they decide who has or doesn't have a GS engine...by reading the removalable ignition side cover?

  I actually think with all the complaints I hear about the poor shifting of a Sachs they should be given a headstart to the first turn.  

  I feel that some of the people on the other brands are just a little touchy about the fact that a good running Sachs Powered Penton in the hands of a good rider is hard to beat.  Well that's my take and I am prepared to defend my position.[8D]

Ron Carbaugh

[bildough]

well said Ron. Now post that on the AHRMA board and show your thick skin.

[Jay Jones]

Hi guys,                                                                            Adam" and Tom" are just good" on great bikes" and theres just a few who can't deal with that in Ahrma!I also think if a bike is setup to run 7" of suspension in the rear prior to 75" a guy should be allowed to race it that way,in the sportsman class,Just because certain ahrma honchos wantB50mx handling bikes strait all across the board doe'snt mean a guy riding better equipment should suffer?I say Run what you brung!Have fun!Ahrma needs to quit justifing there rule to compliment two brands?we all know what two brands im talking about!??The truth!lol![B)]Pentons were better bikes that were more advanced than others as were a few others makes!too!:)

[chicagojerry]

i agree that its a little too much splitting hairs to rule out the "D" motor. i do not claim to be anything close to knowledgable on the workings of sachs motors, other than knowing that when i tried to ride a couple in the early 70's and that i could not make them shift. but i think that ahrma would have been well advised to consult any one of a few extremely knowedgable people that frequent this website. the insight available here is irreplacable. i'm sure that someone will submit data to return it to the classic vs sportsman class. its amazing to me that the ahrma board saw fit to address a problem that did not seem to exist in an effort to clarify a perceived grey area.     chijer

[Larry Perkins]

If the Sachs 125 was better than the YZ and Elsinore then they should run with them in Sportsman class not Classic which is for 71 and older 125's.  I love Pentons but the Sachs motored ones were archaic compared to the 74 Jap bikes and they were not better.  It was old in weight, shifting, and porting.  Some guys like Tom can make them wail but if Tom were on a modified  Elsie he would be farther ahead.  A highly modified D motor is probably not fair in Classic if we are honest in our hearts.  

The suspension argument is an old one but AHRMA did it in Sportsman to even the playing field.  As always AHRMA is virtually the only game in town so if in Rome...  If you like more fun and less rules move to Missouri and race MOVMX and you will see why it is one of the largest State Series in the U.S. and why it is NOT AHRMA affiliated.  Curtis always rules for fun first and rules second.  I at first did not understand this but I eventually got it.  

Ron, There is 175's in the 125 class?  Go figure, that never happened in "The Day" did it?

Larry P

[Knute]

Hey Jerry,

I am also amazed that AHRMA is addressing a problem that doesn't even exist.  In an attempt to add some logic to the conversation, I just posted a response on the AHRMA message board.  I'm afraid the timing of this topic within AHRMA might have something to do with the fact that Adam has won Classic and Sportsman 125 Expert on my Penton at Mid-Ohio for the last two years.  I hope that's not the case.  

Kent

[firstturn]

Larry,
  Thanks for you input.  I always respect your side because you have been racing for longer than most people have owned motorcycles.  I would disagree with the statement about the highly modified D engine.  I have seen and continue to see $8000.00 plus Elsinores and CZs and where do you put those pups?  One other thing I haven't seen the techs at AHRMA doing is walking around any bikes with magnets to see what the frames are mad of??  I guess the point is that there are many ways to win and I think the two people you mentioned just make it look easy.  Maybe we should take up a collection and build them each a highly modifies Vespa and see where they place.  That Vespa engine puts out some beans....[].

Bill,
  I normally would post something like this on the board that has the discussion, but since I am not a member of AHRMA I don't feel like it is my place to make that post.  Don't worry, way before the internet I was very active voice in the AMA Rules.  Sometimes I even gave up some secrets to help make a class more competitive.

  With that said AHRMA works hard to make things fair, but some members just complain more than others....It is not fair for me to complain unless I want to join and be a target to defend myself.

Ron Carbaugh

[ossaracer]

I agree the 6D is NOT enough of an advantage at all.  Plus the higher state of tune GS and GS Pro on Monarks are allowed, so the D argument is not valid IMO  I will work the conventional route and petition this change be struck down as ambigious  since GS and GS Pro Monarks are technically more HP and they are not our front.  The rder is 80+% of the battle as evidenced by Adam, and specifically Tom B beating all the 400s in +40 expert!!

I have been behind some CZ125s and my B runs like hell.  But out of a turn I SWEAR the CZ was a 175, as the CZ pulled waay to hard for a 125 and my bike was tuned pretty darn far, 32mm, pipe, pvl, etc etc   so lets look at that more serious issue??  AHRMA does try hard, and it is still by far the best most positive experience out there.  I am going to work to overturn this bad rule.  In any case I'll keep my sweet Six Days and pumped up B motor and out ride the commie bikes!!!  (Husky too!!)  LOL

Terry Gates
AHRMA Classic 125 racer
Penton 125 Six Days (2)
Penton 175 Jackpiner
Penton 250 Harescambler (wannabe!!)

[firstturn]

Kent,
  Please don't show up with a Vespa for Adam to ride next year.  I will be blamed for Vespas being moved to the Sportsmans class.  I do  agree with Terry about trying to get this overturned the traditional way.  I along with others fought hard to get rules changed at AMA in the 70's and 80's and I feel that they listened and did make some changes.  So as we all know AHRMA is doing a Great Job and sometimes rules disrupt our little world, but hey I am already building an A Sachs with a 5 speed.  With the right rider well see how that works out.  Oh, I actually should say Doug Wilford has already built the engine now I am doing my best to pick the correct spark plug[:0].  Let's all have fun and with Terry, Kent and Bill maybe this will all be over before it really goes anywhere.

Ron Carbaugh

[ossaracer]

Thanks Ron!!  I think we can overturn it.  MAY be too late this year, we'll see.  NExt year for sure. Either way I'll work in becomming more knowledgable on the B thanks to Bill, Kent, Ron, and buy another bike to pump up more Ha Ha!   The POG folks are a great group, and next year I hope to move up to a Hare Scrambler.

We'll fix this bad rule, and then figure out about the 175s from 'other' brands.  I agree   a fast B motor with proper suspension and a good rider cannot be beat.  With 4" that suspension is a big deal.  Love the Penton and mine shft good now.   Maybe raise the compression as Tom B. has suggested and it will hit harder still either way I am having the time of my life racig, good friends, and these great bikes!!!  But I'll still target the CZs!![}:)][}:)]

Terry Gates
AHRMA Classic 125 racer
Penton 125 Six Days (2)
Penton 175 Jackpiner
Penton 250 Harescambler (wannabe!!)

[lksseven]

If Tiger Woods uses my clubs, he still plays like Tiger (unfortunately, with his clubs I'll still play like me).

 Watching Tom B ride is like watching Secretariat run.  It doesn't matter what he rides, he'll win, and look good doing it.  Anybody bitchin' about his bike is just spewing sour grapes.

There is a lot of cheating that goes on in this vintage stuff, with bore outs and other stuff that makes some 125's scream like 250's.  But if you want to see the biggest cheating in the world, play in a charity golf scramble.  Some of those jerks are so needy and desparate to win  that they'll lie cheat and steal to do it.
        There's always a few cheaters and whiners that can't stay within the spirit of the endeavor.

Actually, it'll be fun watching these crybabies backpedal and spin and blush with frustration when Tom B and Adam win big, anyway.  



Larry Seale
I choose to ride

[Larry Perkins]

When I said D I should have said D GS and D GS Pro.  In AHRMA rules for Classic it has always stated that with exceptionally fast Classic bikes that they would be bumped to Sportsman.  The GS and GS Pro models were far faster than previous Sachs bikes but they still shifted poorly.  

Larry P

[Larry Perkins]

Also the exotic bikes like the CZ's they are building with Modern rods and such should also be bumped to Sportsman.  With ever changing technology being brought to these old bikes the rules will continually have to be molded as NASCAR does so the playing feild is evened.

Larry P

[Dwight Rudder]

Those CZ and Husqvarna that I have raced against have huge carbs and are very fast.  
Dwight

Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.