ahrma rules /sachs 6D engine

[socalmx]

If you really wanted to cheat with a Sachs engine, buy a 185cc German Army Sachs engine. The 250cc District 37 Desert number 1 plate was won in 1973 by Mark Ardent riding a DKW. I always wondered how they did it and now that I know of this 185cc engine, it is pretty easy to guess where they got the extra cc's.

[rob w]

I believe (not positive ?) that in '73 - Mark Ardent was also desert racing on a Penton Jackpiner.

[Penton Master]

This board has changed so much over the last five years. Us poor restorers have to wade through too many posts on racing. This post belongs in the Penton Racing Talk section, so that I can get back to picking my paint color. Right LP!

[thrownchain]

I suggested a dedicated page of restoration info, paint colors, decals, etc. Post the answers to the most asked restoration questions in one place.

[socalmx]

Mark Adent carried the number 1 plate in 1974 on a 250 Penton but I don't think he raced a Jackpiner during 1973. I'll dig thru some old Cycle News and see if I can dig up any Jackpiner references.

[VICTOR MONZ]

I just feel the ARHMA touchy feely guys ought to look at the 73-74 Husky's I ride against in the 125 Classic Class with my 1972 Six Day....and also what about the 1973 Jackpiner being ridden in the 250 Classic Class, it is 1972 like technology.

It is an equation of HP and rider skills that win most races...rider skills probably dominate.

That's my 125 cents!

[Larry Perkins]

Penton Master,

I think it is a legitimate discussion that could go either place.  The snipe is not much appreciated.  Perhaps you thought it was funny, I didn't.  Racing at least gives a meaningful purpose to all this for me but since you are different and I am honest enough to say it bugs me I will let the detail people take over and make this a boring ass sight.  Have great life guys debating shades of gray.

Larry P

[thrownchain]

How do they propose to verify which motor is being used?? Are they going to do a complete tear down and measuring of every Sachs motor after every race?? Seems slightly ignorant to me.

Larry, you made your point, lighten up just slightly.

[bildough]

actually I grew living next door to mark Adent. My brother raced with The rams and mark regularly. His DKW was no faster than my penton. He would ride circles around me in the desert and I would do the same to him at Indian Dunes or any MX track. He could read terrain like no one else. His bike was a 125. His father Ed did all the work on it. And to say anything else about it is ignorance.He waited on parts just like the rest of us and Ed kept the bikes running. He just didnt have to pay for the parts or the bikes.
He was a talented desert rider but he wasnt a talented MX rider. The bike was the bike. he was the real deal in the desert. Dont sell that talent short.

Bill cappel

[dkwkid]

Bill, that may have been true at first for Mark adent.He was racing 250 class on the Deek. More than likely it was a German Army 180cc sachs motor(you can get them on German Ebay!). Tom Ruddy was the wrench for Hercules distributing owned by Ted Lapadakis.The bikes were serviced at the distributors and locked in a conex container. On the Friday night before a race they would pick them up and return them on Monday.Tom Ruddy spent quite a bit of time building the pipe for the brooks and Marks bike.I wish I had that pipe now!
 The reason I know these things is that I talk to Tom Brooks Sr- in fact I have his DKW restored in my garage.

[Knute]

quote: Kent,
Please don't show up with a Vespa for Adam to ride next year. I will be blamed for Vespas being moved to the Sportsmans class.

Hey Ron,

I'm with you man.  I wouldn't want to be the one to tick off the Vespa crowd either!  I was thinking about getting my '78 KTM moped going but I suppose there would be some kind of problem with that too...  

All kidding aside, I have requested the appropriate info from the AHRMA Vintage Motocross Rules & Eligibility Chairman regarding their recent "clarification" of the rules. When (if!) I get that, I will then prepare some documentation and submit it to AHRMA before the October 2nd deadline. At some point I will be seeking endorsements of this document.  That's where I will really need some help from all of you.  Doug, Dane, Paul, Ron, Jerry, Terry, Bill, Victor, etc. I'll be in touch with you guys once I find out what transpired within AHRMA.

Thanks!
Kent

[firstturn]

Kent,
  Please send me a email with a phone number or I will send you mine.  After some thought and hearing the "big carburetor" comment from Larry Perkins, which he is right as usual at least in my book, I think this question should be presented to the board.  I will send them a picture of a B cylinder that has been modified so that I can put any size carburetor on I want on it so where do we go from there???  In other words THEY , who ever they are in this case, actually are just stopping bigger carbs being put on Sachs engines unless someone wants to spend $$$$ (MONEY) to have machine work to fit a big carb on a A or B Sachs engine.  Next argument is that if THEY just want to make this a $$$$ (MONEY) contest this is really not in the best interest of what Vintage Racing and really just makes it a contest of a few and not the mass.  The D argument is very weak and if anyone on the Committee wants to call me to get an explaination of the Sachs engines and the difference I would be happy to talk to them.  Although the the REAL DEAL is to talk with Doug Wilford.....Doug does and will always tell it like it is...I know I have been told the way it was and is several times and I still reguard him as the Master of the Sachs engines.

Kent, thanks for taking the lead as I am not a member of AHRMA, but I respect the organization and especially Dick Mann as the Great Person is is and has always been.

OK that is my 2 cents for today.

PS: I do know the hot setup for a Vespa...no kidding.

Ron Carbaugh

[TGTech]

Since I'm not involved in AHRMA, I have no idea of what has started this controversy. It has always been my understanding, that "vintage" had to be 1974 and earlier, so what the heck is the problem. If the D engines were not available in 1974, then why would they ever have been allowed. If they were allowed in or before 1974, then what the @#$% is AHRMA doing screwing around with them.

If I'm off base here, would someone please PM me and clarify what is going on?

Ron is absolutely right about the money thing, and if you don't believe that, look into kart racing. There are so many rules in that game, that it costs a small fortune to be competitive, because everybody spends so much money trying to work around the rules.

Basically, the rules that you enact, have to have no loop holes, because if they do, then that's where the money goes.

Dane

[Paul Danik]

Dane's comment about what year the D engine became available got me to thinking, my 1974 ISDT 125cc Penton had the D cylinder on it.  I don't know if the cases were stuffed as I never had a chance to peek inside, but I dought that they were.
    Dane, if you have a picture of your 1974 ISDT 100cc machine, it may show that you also had the D cylinder.  

Paul

[chicagojerry]

dane, what this is about is that there are basically two distinctions of vintage bikes that most 125's fall in. the earlier one is called "classic 125"  huskys cz pentons monarch. very limited japanese machines. the later distinction is call sportsman 125, tm's elsies, yz's were allowed. they are trying to classify the D sachs motor into the later "sportman" class instead of the earlier "classic" class claiming that the D motor was a significant improvement from the ealier b motors. it has obviously caused a stir. some of us involved in ahrma are having a hard time grasping why the rules committee decided to tackle a problem that no one seemed to know existed.      chijer