BING vs LECTRON

[Steve Minor]

I'm considering swapping the 38mm Bing on my 1977 400 GS6 for a 38mm Lectron and am asking for any opinions....Please give me the good and bad aspects of this swap....

Thanks

Steve Minor
Wilmington, NC

[Rain Man]

Hi Steve, I have a 76 250 mc5 with a Lectron carb and its my best starting Penton, ever [8D].  The powers right on and it does seem to lean out a bit after I've been riding for an hour or so.
 Other than that, I'm curious  how well it will work for you as far as starting on the 400.  MY 400 is a bear to start and it has a Bing.



Raymond
 Down East Pentons

[Steve Minor]

Thanks for the reply Raymond....

My 400 is a 2 kick start with the Bing. Open choke....tickle the carb until fuel leaks...push the kicker thru one stroke, then give it a crisp kick, close the choke and I'm off. This is a cold start condition.

My trouble occurs after it's hot....then it's a bear to start. Sometimes it takes 20+ minutes to get it started again.....thus the thought about a Lectron switch.

Steve Minor
Wilmington, NC

[Rain Man]

Wow, mines the opposite, once its warmed up, it starts first pull, every time.  Maybe you need a bigger pilot ??  I know one time I found my cylinder head bolts loose and it was being a bear everywhere.
 Air leaks in the base are always hard to trouble shoot

Raymond
 Down East Pentons

[john durrill]

Steve,
 I had a 79 400 with a Bing and stock jetting that was as easy to start hot or cold as a 125 Six- days.
 You could have several things causing the hot start problem. ( just one or several at one time)
Whats your idle mixture screw set at? Your float could have a problem. Either the floats them selves  or the float needle/seat or you could have a tight spot on the pin the float rotates on ( causing the float to stick at times ). What size pilot jet are you running? How worn is the slide and do you have the choke lever rubber banded open when its not in use?
 Check for air leaks like Raymond suggested. A bad seal or loose head bolts  and a bad intake or carb clamping can give you air leaks.
 Has the 400 been hard to start hard since you rebuilt it ?
 Last but not least the ignition can do this. A bad ground or a failing motoplat will give you hard starts.
 The Lectron is a very good carb and would be nice on the 400. To make it an easy install if you went that way ,you would need to get the air boot that looks like a primary drive off a Harley 74 and either some fuel filler hose for a car or one of the intake adapters that Mikuni makes for snowmobiles. With those 2 items the Lectron is almost a drop on.
 Give us some more input on how your carb is set up. What any of the changes you have tried have made to the hard starting so we can be of more help.
 John D.

[Steve Minor]

Hi John.....Haven't "talked" to you in a while. How'd the finger heal up?

My Bing is a stock 38mm. I wrote Bing for the spec on my 77 400 and they told me:

At sea level
Main Jet     44-051-185
Needle Jet   45-120-3,22
Jet Needle   46-360-401 (position 2 from the top)
Idle Jet     44-353-50
Air screw 1 1/8 turns out

I set it up this way and also installed and leveled a new float and installed a new float needle.

Funny you should mention air leaks too...Last time I really rode it hard for over an hour, I pulled over for a breather and noticed the idle was reving up and down...almost as if I was turning the throttle slightly. I feel sure this is caused by an air leak somewhere....Your thought?



Steve Minor
Wilmington, NC

[DKWRACER]

Hi Steve, I think there was a related post by Bob Seymore re: A matter of tuning. Mats from Europe described a method for checking crankcase pressure with a followup by Jerry G. in determining the source of leaks....excellent reading....Good luck, and keep us informed...
Tom Brosius

[Steve Minor]

Hi Tom...I seem to remember that article.....something about some tubing and blowing bubbles in a glass of water.....I'll look it up.

Still got the red "old school" enduro jacket? I was so glad you could use it.

Steve Minor
Wilmington, NC

[DKWRACER]

Steve, the "Hondaline" jacket was well recieved.
It is @ "firsturn"
and "Still Keeping Track"
even better than a "Penton Skulldana"
thanks, bro
Tom Brosius

[john durrill]

Steve,
 Check the head bolts, re torque them. They could be part or the problem if loose.
Check the exhaust manifold and make sure its tight and you dont have an exhaust leak their. Oddly enough that can cause you to run lean at low speeds. Part of the fresh charge runs out into the pipe and is jamed back in just before the exhaust port closes
You can spray carb cleaner around the intake manifold  at both ends and the engine should change RPM if you have a leak their. same with the base gasket area.
 I looked back in my notes on my 400 jetting. We used a 282 needle jet instead of the one listed in the 77 book ( a 322 ).
 You should be able to get the bike to change rpm with the idle mix screw. Get the bike hot. Clean it out buy runing it through the gears after its hot. Then adjust the mix with the screw. I like to have the jetting set so the engine will stumble when i go in and as i go out with the turns. If as you turn it out the engine wont stumble ( some times high tune piston port engines wont ) , adjust it back in till the rpm drops then back it out 1/2 turn. you should end up some where between 3/4 and 1 and 3/4 if the pilot jet is the right size and the engine is in good shape.
 Last has the 400 been like this since the rebuild?
Hope this is some help,
John D.

[Steve Minor]

I sure appreciate the info John....and all others who have offered their help. I try everybody's ideas.

John, the 400 is great, still a beast! But I'm getting too old to try to hang on to all that power, so I want to get it right before I retire it. I've picked up a few 125's to add to the stable. One is a 77 125 GS6 and the other is a 72 Six Day. I just need to learn how to ride then properly.

You know, I bought the 400 GS6 brand new...I still have the original bill of sale and it sure has been fun all these years. But I think I'll enjoy downsizing to the 125's.

Steve Minor
Wilmington, NC

[Rain Man]

Steve thats to funny   Your right, its harder to keep your balance going that slow on a 125 [8D].
   I'm use to the front wheel being able to come straight up in an instant. I love the way the 400 lugs through the rock gardens,and up the side of cliffs.
  I feel the 400 needs more "tuning time" than any other  Penton out there.   The 400 vibrates like no other Penton  and everything seems to loosen up, and Mr. Durrill is right on the money with his suggestions and advice.  Thanks John
  Sounds like it needs an ignition side seal, bench racing from this end.
 Wish I could ride [V]

Raymond
 Down East Pentons