ahrma in turmoil again

[Dwight Rudder]

quote:Originally posted by t20sl

In reply to Dwight's last comment "parts would be plentifull".  I disagree.  Working at a Honda dealership we see about 3-5 people a week looking for Chinese parts.  Only one distributor in the whole of the USA that I know of and they don't go by part number but by a description.  Dwight you are out of touch with the current Chinese problem.  Over 147 manufacturers in China, with no concern about suppling parts.  This will have a huge negative effect on future sales.  Once a parent buys a piece of junk from china, can't get the simplist of parts, do you really think that they will come back and trust a Japanese dealer?  As far as parts interchainging with Honda or Yamaha.  No.  Had a piston out of a 50cc Chinese bike with an engine looking identical to the Honda Z50.  Piston was 2mm smaller and the wrist pin was smaller.  Dealers selling the Chinese bikes would like us to think the parts are the same because it helps them sell their junk.

No, I am familiar with the problems with Chinese bikes but some are actually Honda Contract engines like Lifan.  Others are just copies. But do you think that parts for 1970s Hondas and Yamahas would be more plentiful ?   Also kids are harder on bikes than adults.  I think this would be a way to get kids involved and not destroy bikes of worth. You can buy complete engines for less than $400.
Just an Opinion,
Dwight

Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.

[Dwight Rudder]

quote:Originally posted by thrownchain

You mention the destruction of bikes and mini bikes that can't be replaced. Isn't that true to some extent with any "vintage" bike? Parts for most if not all brands are becoming harder to find and more expensive as a result.
I think a vintage kids class would be the way to go. Honda XR 75s, XL, XR 70s, 80s, Yamaha JT 60s, 80s, it'd be like On Any Sunday all over again. It would be a way to teach the next generation of riders the value of the bikes and a good way to make it a family outing.

The problem is that Kids are harder on bikes than adults. They don't yet respect the difference between a modern bike, a used bike of a few years and a true vintage machine of which parts are hard to find.  My idea is to give them a vintage class bike in construction but not in actual value.  Teach them the differences and how they are to be ridden before giving them an actual vintage machine.  Wouldn't you rather see kids enjoying themselves on a Honda SL70, lookalike that cost $1000 to $1500 or to see them playing Bubba Stewart on a $2000+ actual Honda SL70 that you have trouble finding parts for ?
Just an Opinion,
Dwight

Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.

[OUCWBOY]

Dwight,
I, for one agree with you on this issue. If they want to race in AHRMA they should be on vintage or vintage styled bikes

Donny Smith
Paragould, AR

[t20sl]

Dwight:  A look-a-like Honda would probably be even cheaper.  How much fun is a kid going to have when his bike breaks and he can't get parts.  Lifan parts are not interchangable most of the time.  If they are then there is your supply of SL70 parts.  Whoops, you can't get Lifan parts, scratch that.  So now the small supply of Honda parts still available will be used up for Chinese junk.  Sorry, Dwight, but this is a sore subject to any current Japanese bike dealer.  Please don't take it personal.  Let the kids race but race vintage and teach them respect for the machinery.

  Any thoughts on letting AMA take over for AHRMA?

[SIEGE]

Hey George

long time, man.

we both know that "bashing" is yelling & thrashing without anything to back it up.
I went out of my way to present a thought out presentation with facts & numbers to back it up. Even if I were mistaken about why Madras fell by the wayside- and judging by the way that Eugene & Spokane fell, I think I'm right - even if- the way the PV Riders were asked to leave is still unacceptable, and had everything to do with how those members became disenchanted with the club's regional direction.

Maybe the declining numbers / riders general disgust just happened to coincide with the land getting sold. The problem is still there.

who gets to say what Ahrma should and shouldn't be?  I think the owners do with it what they feel like. what this will come down to is this: WHO OWNS AHRMA?

OK- the first sentence in the book says "Ahrma is member owned"

I'm willing to accept that maybe this is all for show- that it's really a miserable High School Clique- and if you're not in you'll never get in. Fine whatever. I don't actually care that much.

what is shameful is asking people to volunteer their time and efforts and to "grow Ahrma" then when they do, go out of your way to prevent them from geting the job done- to set them up for failure, and then throw your hands in the air and say SEE?

the A-Team has never been recognized by the trustees, or thanks for their hard work- I don't mean me-but those who I personally asked to help- who I then found myself apologizing to for dragging them into the tar pits.

anytime anyone says "anti-Ahrma" I think little of it.
NO ONE is anti-Ahrma.

but when you see the boat sinking, you say hey- guess what? the boat is sinking.

- SIEGE

[brian kirby]

I will say this:

If I WAS an enemy of AHRMA the first thing I would do is try to stop new membership and make current ones leave. The question I have is why are the trustees doing that when they are supposed to be helping AHRMA become healthier?

Bottom line, AHRMA already has insurance for kids and kids DID race in the "vintage" era, there is no GOOD reason to exclude them.

Brian

'72 Six Day (on loan from Ernie P.)

[Dwight Rudder]

I do feel there are ways to do this.  AMA does supply insurance that will cover the kids. Maybe if AHRMA would combine a few of the classes they would have enough time for a kids class. At least one.
Dwight

Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.

[brian kirby]

AHRMA already carries the same insurance that every local track that runs mini classes carries. Liability is a fabricated excuse to get out of allowing kids to race.

Even if AHRMA doesnt create National kids classes, they could easily set up one class, like an XR75 spec class, for kids to ride at Regionals with their parents. Or even a 100cc class restricted to under 16 kids, which would give all those Super Rats and Berkshires a place to compete.

Brian

'72 Six Day (on loan from Ernie P.)

[Mick Milakovic]

I want AHRMA to succeed and I want kids to race.  I also want to preserve vintage bikes and not get them beat up (I do a good enough job of that myself [B)]).  I know of one AHRMA racer who took a 2001 XR200, had it bored to 220, I think, by Powroll and was competing in AHRMA cross country events [:0]!  Not really the spirit of vintage, is it?  

However, why not let kids race XR80 Hondas at vintage events?  They are air cooled, drum brake, and bullet proof.  Besides, there are a million of them and parts are plentyful.  I know my son loves to race his RM65 in modern then thrash around on the XR inpit bike races.  Just another thought.............

[brian kirby]

Any year of the XR200 is legal for AHRMA Post Vintage since they were all drum brake and air cooled. Its the "like design" rule, they are all essentially the same bike from '81 to '02. I think I know who you are talking about, and he races in PV Open class, not against 200cc bikes. Depending on the course he races a KTM 250 or the XR220. The big bore/stroked XR200s were very common when they were new, so I dont see that as a problem since its a "period correct" modification.

I like the idea of XR80s (any year) for a spec kids class. Require it to be stock so there is no temptation to build $5k mini racers and let them loose.

Brian

'72 Six Day (on loan from Ernie P.)

[Dwight Rudder]

Honestly the older twin shock XR75 and XR80 are better than the single shock models.  My thought about the SL70 lookalike bike would be more in the spirit of VINTAGE with the older style 4 speed engine but I'm easy.  I was looking on Ebay and they are selling complete 110-125cc Honda look-a-like engines for $250 including carbs another $60 for shipping.
Just thought that some enterprising individual might have someone actually clone the SL70.  They already have on the CT70s.  Just a thought.  No, I don't think Chinese bikes are as good a Japanese but their day is coming if they ever get their distribution network settled.
Remember when we thought Japanese bikes were junk.  I never thought we would actually think that a Honda SL70 would be worth saving, did we.
John Penton never thought that his bikes would have such a following 30 years after they quit making them either.
I agree there has to be a way to get at least the age limit dropped down to a level that most kids can partipate in AHRMA events.  
Dwight

Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.

[wfopete]

DR is right, the Chinese are coming. I worked for a distributor here in the US and although the Chinese, at times, will make you wonder how they put their pants on without screwing it up they keep trying.  It all depends on where they want to put their expertise.  Many of their "Engineers" don't understand "damping" or gearing or a thousand other things that make or break a product.  But they are getting smarter. Every major auto manufactor is having at least some of their parts made in China. There are many Americans over in China right now chasing the Almighty Dollar by showing the Chinese right from wrong.

Pete Petrick
Penton Jackpiner
Slow but Good

[[email protected]]

I have been out of the country for a while and am now checking in to see this thread. From a Hodaka point of view I agree with Mick and Chicago Jerry. We at Hodaka have always believed that the kid's are our future. I am also a member of POG and know that the same philosophy holds true with the Penton marque. All the hard work that goes into promoting the Penton and Hodaka brands are almost a waste of time if there is not a new generation that will come along and carry the torch when we are gone.

At this years Hodaka Days we will not be able to have a school again like Jim Pomeroy used to teach for the kid's. We had planned to have Ronnie Pomeroy teach this class to the kid's but the AMA has dropped the insurance for schools or classes. Also in the past we were not AMA sanctioned and needed to get private race insurance. As you all know this can be very spendy but we felt we wanted to race in little downtown Athena Oregon so we did it. When I secured race insurance there was NO extra charge to allow the kid's to race. So I am not sure why Ahrma will not allow this ? You can be an AMA member at five years of age and race modern or mini-bikes correct ? But you cannot race a slower older vintage bike. I am not mud slinging or taking issue but rather just trying to ask an honest question that I have yet to hear a good answer for.
Again at Hodaka Day's this has been a hugely successful event because we have made it not only about us old guys but also about families and kid's. The more we have involved woman and children in this the more successful it has become.
This year's ISDTRR I will be riding with my son Chris. Dave Rozier with his son Mike. Paul Danik with his son Chad. It really does not get any better than that.

If we cannot have insurance available for schools to teach our kid's how to ride and we cannot have our kid's at Ahrma events learning the right's and the wrong's of proper motorcycle riding technique what do you do ? Just buy a motorcycle and cut your kid loose ? The land is no longer available which most of us had as kid's so where do they learn ? Thank you for the space to post this somewhat rambling message.
Paul

[Ernie Phillips]

To add to Hodaka Paul's comment:
"This year's ISDTRR I will be riding with my son Chris. Dave Rozier with his son Mike. Paul Danik with his son Chad. It really does not get any better than that."
I had the priviledge of riding with my 16 year old son, Christoipher, at the Combs Warm-up ride, along with my brother, cousin (Baby Brian)and boss.   Brian's enthusiam for the sport has resulted in 4 new  AHRMA members.  We are hooked.  Hope to meet again at New Blaine RR.

Jerry, thanks for bringing this to our attention and for seeking a change.

Ernie P.
Chattanooga, TN

[Big Mac]

We've had an XR75/XR80 (twin shock) class for kids up to 12 years in our Pac-NW Vintage Dirt Racing series for at least 10 years and never had a problem. There are at least a dozen guys in their late teens/early 20s who started there under the tutelage of their vintage-loving parents, who now regularly race the adult vintage/PV classes.

This past year the promoter split it to a Stock XR75 class and a "Hot Rod" XR75 class, and also added a Schoolboy class for up to 14 yr olds for PV CR60s, YZ80s, etc. A lot of Dads bring out their 4-6 yr olds and their PW50s or JR50s and they tag along getting some experience with the stock XR75s, no one complains and, knock on wood, all has gone fine. I prefer to bring my sons up through this training ground rather than the current modern MX route using the moderm MX/SX tracks.

I would bet that if our local promoter consulted an attorney like AHRMA did, he'd be advised to forego all kid events entirely to limit liability exposure. But then again, if we all swaddled ourselves in bubblewrap and remained indoors 24/7 breathing purified air, we'd all reduce our risk of ever getting another bruise too.

Jon McLean
Lake Grove, OR