***Attention All Penton Parts Suppliers ***

[Bill Smith]

This website would like to update its supplier's page at http://www.pentonusa.org/suppliers/suppliers.asp

The only requirement needed to be listed as a supplier is that you must be a POG member.  If you are not a member or if you know a potential supplier who is not a member, membership information is available at http://www.pentonusa.org/join/join.asp

For the month of October 2003, this website received 28,787 visits.  And for this month, as of November 17th, 16,781 visits. These numbers are definitely a plus for getting your business or product noticed.  Our web stats program that tracks the website monthly has also indicated that the supplier page is visited on a regular basis.

All that we need from you is information about your business or product, including contact information, email address, web site address if available, and images of your product if available.  Send above information and/or images to [email protected]

We would like to make this supplier page as comphrensive as possible in order to make restorations and riding of Penton motorcycles easier and more enjoyable.

If you have any questions, please contact [email protected]

 

[Larry Perkins]

Sung to the tune of- He Probably Shot Himself In The Foot But He Always Had To Speak Out When He Thought Something Was Unfair.

Maybe we should do this like the Husky Club does their website.The guy that is President has all the stuff he has to sell listed on the site with nice pictures and easy credit card ordering info.  Somebody on the POG already wished for it in a previous response when they wished they could see on the POG Al and Karl's stuff and could order it there and buy with the shopping cart concept.  Does that sound fair and is this where this is really going?

Al doesn't like dealing with the computer so for the betterment of the membership we connect him up in a round-about way.  It was probably better for the membership to get a product flyer from Al sent from POG member list and it is probably better for the membership that his parts are right there to buy when the POG has a display.  But is it fair and does anybody care if it makes it easier for them?

It will be said that it is not the intent of the site to make this new idea more help for one than another but that is what it will do and it gets the POG more involved in the direction buyers will choose when just pointing them in the direction is all that is unbiased.

Lord Byron once said, "Though the boys throw stones at the frogs in sport, the frogs do not die in sport, but in earnest".

[rd400pi]

Hey Parts Guys,
  I'm just a knucklehead with little Penton knowledge but much enthusiasm.  When it comes to parts, I would love to have a central point of contact (like this site) but, it's probably impractical.  I guess it mostly boils down to linking customers (and potential customers) with the suppliers via websites, catalogs, POG newsletters, etc.  I would be thrilled to death if all supplier guys could put out a catalog.  Reality would say that's not possible so it's up to us as consumers to search out the parts.  As much as it's a PITA sometimes it is still part of what makes this fun.  Does any of this help?  Heck no but, I still would like to see us a get along and keep producing Pentons out of piles of junk.[^]  Thoughts?

  Mike Husted (rd400pi)
  72 & 74 Six Days
  76 MC5 250

P.S. Sorry to ramble but I feel as though there might be some hard feelings right now.

[Paul Danik]

The following message was faxed to me by Alan Buehner and he asked me to post it for him.
Paul Danik

MAKE WAY FOR THE RESCUE SQUAD
November 22, 2003
Last week I got a call from my favorite Martian.  He was upset about what he read from Larry Perkin's posting on the message board.  He was surprised that I was laughing after he read it to me.  I told him that I was going to ignore it especially since there was only one response on the board to it.  In thinking it over, I decided that there needs to be a response from me on this to set the facts straight.

Five years ago when we were putting the finishing touches on the formation on the Penton Owners Group, we needed to choose the officers for the club.  My intent in working on the formation of the club was to get it up and running and then just walk away. I had no intentions on being an officer.  When I asked for a volunteer to be President, it got real quiet and no one moved (it was like in the movies where the army guys are lined up, the officer asks for a volunteer, and everyone except one unsuspecting fool takes a step backward).  So, that's how I was elected President.  I was no stranger to this job.  I have prior experience working on the boards of two non-profit organizations.  One was the National Office Machine Dealers Association where I served approxiamtely 8 years working with the local chapter (Cleveland Office Machine Dealers) as President, Scretary, Treasurer, and chairman of various committees.  I still continue to serve as a member of the combined Commercial, Housing and Asset Management Committee.  

My experience with these organzations helped with the formation of our bylaws and the confidence to serve as Presdient of this club.  In taking on this position, I knew from the beginning that I was putting myself on the line for potential "conflicts of interest" and I am always on guard to prevent myself from getting caught up in any. As an officer of the club I am kept updated with current membership rolls.  I have never taken any membership information from the list to update my mailing list.  In fact, it was from my membership list and my newletter (Volume 1 Issue 2 - April 1, 1998) paid for by me, that was used to solicit membership (I even included an application form with the newsletter) to our newly formed club.  My mailing list at that time was approximately 500 names.  The only way someone gets put on my mailing list is for them to call me on the phone or talk to me at a swap meet.  My current mailing list is over 800 names and if you were to compare both lists of names, you would find many people on the POG list that have never been on my mailing list.  I and the other officers of the club are very sensitive to mailing lists being sold to solicitors.  It was brought up at one of our early meetings that the POG list is confidetial and is never to be sold.  In fact, before we published our first membership directory (and the only one so far), we waited one year to receive a reply back from everyone on the renewal forms to see their answer to the questions regarding their name being placed in the directory.  A few did not want their name placed in it, many did not want their address listed.  So it was published without addresses and phone numbers listed.

Karl bugged me about getting a web site going to showcase the parts he was making.  When he realized that I wasn't in a hurry to do so, he voluntarily placed my newsletter on his web site and linked it to the POG site.  If you pay attention to the date on the front page you will see that it is two years old and was never updated to my current newsletter dated January 1, 2003.

I am not happy with the proposed supplier list being put on the web site either, Larry.  However, this is not the Al Buehner club and this is one of the many times that I had to stay out of the way and let the members do what they feel is right.  It was not my idea.  It was Bill Smith's idea and it is being done from a devoted Penton owner's point of view.  My point of view would be to sell the space (especially in our newsletter) to the suppliers, but this causes problems with our non-profit status in regards to how much to charge and making sure that we are not making a profit in doing so.  I have great respect for Bill Smith and full confidence in the task he has taken on as our web master.  In the short time that he has been in control he (and his friend Karen) have done a fantastic job making our site professional looking and easy to use.  And you know what?  You haven't seen anything yet!  A list of suppliers (for services, parts, and KTM dealers), who are members or the club, is still listed in the "classified" section of each POG newletter at no charge.  If you look at page 5 of my current newsletter you will find "other" Penton parts suppliers and their phone numbers listed at no charge.  I do this as a service to help anyone trying to fix or restore a Penton, because even though I try, I can never have "everything" that people are looking for.

In closing, I would like to state that my involvement with the club in organizing and running meetings, working on committees, organizing events, and putting together the newsletters takes a lot of effort and burns up alot of my precious spare time (which is why I am still not tied into the internet), but it is fun and exciting.  My title as President, I regard as just a title.  I am always humbled and in awe when attending meetings and events and see John and Jack Penton, Dane  Leimbach, Doug Wilford, Paul Danik, Ed Youngblood, and Al Born show up and be actively involved in the operations of this club.  By right they should be beating on their chests and bragging about their accomplishments because they have the credentials to back them up, but you will never see them do that.  They are all low key and never give a thought to their egos when you meet them.  They have done it all and yet still keep on giving.  Seeing this gives me the drive and determination to do my best and the pride I have in regards to this club is being able to work with all of these wonderful people.  Even though Larry Perkins is one of my competitors, I consider him a good friend (and I still do) who has been helpful to me and you our customers.  I only hope that in the future if he has a problem or gets upset, that he would call me or one of the officers of the club to get his facts correct before making comments on this site.  Everyone give Larry a group hug, until he receives the band aids I am sending him to help his feet to heal up.

Sincerely - Alan L. Buehner, President of POG

[Larry Perkins]

I stand corrected that the mailer Al sent out was based in the POG address list because I take him for his word.

In his response never is it mentioned the selling of parts at POG displays like Mid-Ohio, however.  So my original question of was it fair stands.

Never once did I call this the Al Buehner club.  It is the Penton Owners Group.  It is not a club anyway as we do not vote or elect.

I never questioned that Al was there in the beginning or that he does not work very hard at the POG.  He is far more selfless than I could ever be.  So all the campaign talk is unneccesary.  Al does the group business well.

Please remember we are talking about two hats here.  The hat as President and the hat as parts supplier.  One just has to be sure one hat is not unfairly benefitting the other.  To complain about one hat does not mean the other is lame too.

I also consider Al a friend but that does not prevent me from moaning about advantages I don't have as a competitor.  It does not prevent me from not liking what I see is another advantage taken away.  I was complaining and questioning the group not Al directly.  That is a freedom we have in America.  The right to moan if we think we should.

When I bought a couple of my inventories I had to pay a good amount of money for them.  I did so because I saw a niche in the Penton parts supply that was not covered well.  Ebay and the internet.  The POG was a place I liked to tell stories, answer questions and hook people up with parts new and used.  I worked this hard and did so till recently.  These other suppliers have not done this and seeing Al sent his message with Paul instead of getting on here it is still that way.  So ebay and POG and a couple of other websites like Jeff's and it's offspring made it possible to get good return on my money and that is why I spent what I did.  

The proposed showing suppliers wares on the POG will hook up other suppliers like Al and Karl for Al will undoubtedly eat into that niche.  The only items that will be shown logically will be reproduced items.  90% of the things that are being sold as reproductions are controlled by Al and Karl.  I have been able to sell some of these items because Karl trades with me when he needs parts and Al will sell some or trade for some at a discount when he has good supply.  I do well with these on ebay and to many of my overseas customers.  Some of these items I would get directly from Karl and was told I could several times over the couple of years that repro has really rolled, however I have never been given a price list to know even if the traded items I am selling are at close prices.  It seems like lockout to a certain extint.

I see nothing wrong with the suppliers e-mail, address, phone number, and what they generally have being on the supplier page.  I believe anything beyond that is giving away ad space and vastly favors one parts supplier.  I think this unfair advantage directly will cut into my sales.  Whether this happens on purpose to me or just from the flak of change in the end will not matter to me or mine.

Al was very right in one aspect.  No response except from one brave soul and one message bearer.  You guys are either smarter than me or less brave.  In my original post I questioned whether what I saw as not a good move for all and what I saw as lingering unfairness was right or not or did anyone care.  The answer was loud and clear.  
If it is convienent for the masses, monitarily beneficial to the minority, but damaging to the one it is good and progress.

I do not need band aids as my feet are tough.  I have been down many rocky paths and made fruitless stands before.  Heck, I am from Texas and had a relative at The Alamo.

One last thing.  Paul, If you were mad about this I wish you had called or e-mailed me instead of this taking and bringing messages.  I am still your friend and I am sorry you are mad at me.

I will put my major efforts now towards ebay as has been since this got my goat.  You guys have plenty of POGGERS now to answer all those questions without rambling about "The Day", Pentonia, and Pentonites.  This all went fine before me and will after me.  Someone reminded me the other day that none of us is around forever.  This is true mentally and physically.

As my mother always says-Have The Very Best of Lives.

[DKWRACER]

Interesting topic in a capitalistic society. As I read it, a group of guys formed the POG, some took the "behind the curtain" approach based on experience, others took the inventory mode, others were close to original family, others were into re-pops.....obviously someone could get hurt here, through the natural progression of business. Conflicts of interest have also been mentioned, and I feel undertones about advantages....HUMMMM how do I resolve this as a simple member ?? There are other "owners groups"  than ours, what are the chances that the same issues have come up (pretty good)... As a long-standing member, I would suggest resolving your issues amongst yourselves, it appears to me that it was never the intent to cause discord, but xxxx happens.......

[Rocket]

I have read the posts several times and I hate to see this happening.  I am very proud to be a memeber of the POG group and I consider Al and Larry to be friends of mine.  Whenever anyone asks about info for parts, I always suggest they try Larry and Al, no particular order.  If you need original, I think Larry has more of an inventory, not sure though.  If you need it right away, Al is the choice.  Larry and I have talked about this, him not being quite as organized as Al, both are great guys and I like doing business with them both and talking to them.  To me, Al and Larry are the two main Penton parts suppliers and word of mouth is a great way to advertise, which I am sure happens all of the time with the Penton group.
I'm ready for Mid-Ohio, won't summer ever get here??!!
Rod

[DKWRACER]

How slow and slow it always goes, to mend a tear that always shows, it won't be long...it won't be long....

This thread runs very deep, please keep in mind that somewhere in the halls of motorcycling history, a Penton and it's place in the Americana are bound....

The Penton Owners Group has an obligation, it requires carefull obligations, on all parts:
President
Secretary
Treasurer
Legal Council
Restorers
Parts suppliers
Racers
WEBMASTERS TOO!!!

Somewhere in the cornucopia is me, a listenist (new coin)

I can tell you that we are not done yet!!!
I am hoping that in the works, the website is is to be improved, it is part of the process which we present to the general public, the history of John Penton and his ambitions....This forum is not about politics, nor is it a forum to air our dirty laundry, the "WE" should not be mis-construed, it is about about preserving and protecting our responsibilities.....
Thanks,
Tom Brosius

[LynnCamp]

Unfortunately, I think there are some misunderstandings here.  Probably nothing that a few phone calls between old friends wouldn't fix.  I think all Bill was trying to do was update the Suppliers List and include more suppliers on the page.  I think Larry is concerned that there is a movement to put up a parts/supplier database with a shopping cart – which is not the case and I am sure that very few members will think it is a good idea for a non-profit group to do so.

Personally, I thought a database (that listed all the parts and who has them – no prices) would help ALL suppliers as it would encourage more people to own and maintain Pentons because they would find it easier to learn (a) what parts they need, and (b) where they can find them.  Having said that, I wonder if it is practical to expect suppliers or individuals with parts to submit all of their parts for listing in the database (and to remove their name when they no longer have the part).

So........ I don't know what the answer is.  I have almost finished with two prototypes – the first is where people can search for a part by (a) name or (b) by year/bike and get back a list of the suppliers or individuals that have that part  (http://www.pentonparts.com or http://www.ehorses.com/pentonparts ) and another one that looks and works more like a Classified Ad website (to rough to show yet).  

But my gut feeling is that we should do neither of the above --- and rather do a database with part schematics and Parts Catalog like the one used on Higgins website for KTM.  Then at least someone with a Penton can figure out what year/model they have and what parts go with it.  Then........ they can go to the Supplier's List and get the list of the different suppliers and call them to find out if they have the part.

I say this without knowing if the manuals are available for me to pull that kind of information from --- and would posting those manuals on the web be a legal violation or – for that matter – cut into a supplier's revenue cuz he would like to sell the manuals to people rather than have them on the web.

The long-term success for Penton restoration and maintenance will rely a lot on parts availability.  Also on educating folks as to what bike they have and what parts they need to keep it running.  You all are doing a great job of that now with your forum posts and Suppliers List.  I think all the rest is just some of us fishing around for some ideas to help make it better.

[rob w]

Don't anybody worry, everything's gonna be all right. If you need a part......just look, listen, ask, phone around, one way or another it'll usually work. (unless it's two sets of aluminum fenders)
We can't make it too easy for a new-comer to fix up their Penton, if you don't stuggle a little looking, you just would'nt learn as much about the bike...or meet all the good people.
I have absolutely no complaints about the way everything works now.
Thanks,

Bob

[Dr.2Stroke]

The idea of listing all penton suppliers on one site is very good,and due to the fact,that i have one of the biggest(if not the biggest,about 20 tons of used parts,1 ton of new parts...) stocks of used and new old stock KTM /Penton parts worldwide,it would be more easily to check the availability of parts for Penton/KTM owners around the world.  Im living in switzerland,europe,and its totally clear that the POGGers first look after parts in their continent,also because of shipping costs. i know that also here in europe this site is read more and more,and here are also lots of enthusiasts restoring their old pentons,which were all sold under the KTM brand here.  im also in the proceed of constructing a good website for my parts,but i had offers in range of 15000$ just for a site with shop and this stuff,and i think that this wouldnt be necessary(it is also too expensive...).a normal site would be good, i guess.if i had more time,i already had a site in english,but im just a one man show,this is my job ,my hobby and my confession,so it would be a honor to be stated as a parts supplier in the POG site! i hope to be able to keep a good reputation as a supplier,and i will let you all knows about the news of my website!Regards Dr.2Stroke Reinhard Schrem,Zurich,Switzerland

[metalkfab]

Am I crazy or the pages that Lynn mentions in her response for cheese or what ?

[vmx1963]

quote:Originally posted by metalkfab

Am I crazy or the pages that Lynn mentions in her response for cheese or what ?

Cheese???

[LynnCamp]

While I am working on a prototype, the text is jibberish as well as the data.  I had a database with info on cheese products.  I used it to "mock up" the penton parts pages.

Since I didn't have photos of all the different Penton models, I used landscape and art photos to mock up the "Penton Gallery" where you are supposed to see pictures of the different models.  Sorry if I confused you.

[swamp fox]

Lynn,
I am quite impressed with your work, as I hope everyone else is. It would be neat to click onto a page and see every model representing the Glorious Pentons in living color. Nice Job.

Robert Manucy
72 Berkshire


PS- Maybe Karl was right, let's get some Pentons in there and "cut the cheese" [)]:)