Hidden Treasures?? KTM 200??

[DKWRACER]

Come one now... I have seen posts of Poggers who subtly own up to ownership of a few, Me TOO!!!, But yet, really, how good is the KTM 200 EXC, I am considering one, had a 94 300, and never disappointed, it went away, part of a process for my 02 BMW R1150R, ONE OF THE BEST, and now I have a chance, tell me about the 200, a dream come true?

[Rocket]

DKW
I bought a 99 200EXC in April of 99 and rode and raced that one until
the spring of 03.  I bought another 200 and I like that one just as much.  They are as light as a 125 and just about as much power as a 250.  Best dirt bike I have ever owned, hopefully that statement doesn't upset to many Pogger's.  I gave my 99 to my son in Cal.  He has been riding as 2003 Honda CRF 450.  Sent me a note last week that he is wanting to sell the 450 and just ride the 200.  I'm sold on the KTM's.
Rocket

[dirtbike]

I often discuss thing like this with my KTM dealer and even though I don't have one and will never have one either I think I have a pretty good picture of how they hold up. They seem to be relible and most riders appreciate the handling and powerband. According to my knowledge they appear to be excellent bikes. Hy husky dealer said that there where reliability problems with the clutch and gearbox. There is some logic in that but I haven't seen or heard of a real world case so I believe they are very good in what they are supoosed to do.

Me on the other hand is more looking for something that don't exist and maybe won't exist either. Imagine a two stroke engine at about 300-420cc with mild porting and power output, some 35-45HP much like a Husky 360 or KTM 350/390 with modern engine engineering designed to last several years. Bottom end and a wider powerband then any four stroke. Enough pull to challange a 250, at least in the mud. Put that engine in a modern frame with good suspension, breaks and make sure everything is designed to hold up instead of chasing ounces here and there. Basically a modern bike not designed to win world GP and not requiring the service intervals of a hysteric GP racer either. Air cooling would be a plus, of course. Logically the bike could be sold for half the price of a new titanium enhanced, computer ignited, alu-frame design exercise.
That would be a dream coming true.......zzzzzzzz

[tlanders]

I love my 200 EXC. It's light and powerful. If I had any complaint it would be how tall it is, but that would be true for any modern bike. I have heard that some of the shorter riders chop 5/8" out of the diagonal subframe rails that lowers the seat about 1" to 1.5". I can't see how this can work without the seat pulling away from the gas tank as it pivots back and it seems that the airbox/shock clearance wouldn't allow it. Has anybody out there done this?

Teddy

[firstturn]

Dirtbike,
You make some great points.  I worked for many years with another brand of motorcycles and I actually used the KTM 350 as the bench mark to try and duplicate with as you might say modern engineering.  The KTM had plenty of power to Cross Country and MX with hardly any changes.  But if I could have ever harnessed the first year(1973) 250 Penton horsepower with some type of suspention without blowing shocks it would have been something to ride.  Thanks for the thoughts.  ZZZZZZ

Ron Carbaugh

[Paul Danik]

I have a 99 125EXC and love the machine.  My son was hooked on the Red machines and then he rode my KTM and decided that he was ready to Ride Orange.  He now rides a 2002 200 EXC and really likes it.  Most of the KTM dealers that I have talked to say that the 200 is their best seller. As Larry Miers said in the KTM story he did on speedvision, " KTMs are just cleverly disguised Pentons", so riding Pentons and also KTMs goes together like mud and falling down!!

Paul

[Kip Kern]

I used to race/ride the 2strokes until about 1993 when I bought my first 4stroke 350 Husky.  It was a wonderful machine but wouldn't start worth a darn.  Well, I got smart and bought a new 400 4stroke KTM in 1994 and was hooked.  I raced it for awhile and then sold it to go Vintage.  Wow, what I would do right now for a new KTM 250 4stroke, it would be the perfect machine for any type of riding.  After switching to 4strokes, I don't think I will ever convert back to 2 strokes again, the power delivery is too smooth and man I love the compression braking. (Also, the "button" is a nice touch!)

[LynnCamp]

I LOVE my 2004 200 EXC!!  Talk about a dream come true........ I am so ready to chuck my job and house and go live on the road with my bike and a toyhauler camper...  

Teddy,  I spent $500 and had 5 inches taken off my 2004 200 EXC.  Some of that was from shaving the seat (looks great – just a little less padding) and some by cutting the shocks.  It is all reversible – just plop in new shocks and a new seat.  I LOVE IT!!

I don't think I have sacrificed anything in the way of handling in the kind of riding I do (tight woods) – in fact it handles a lot better for my height and weight.  Anything lost was --by far --gained by being able to touch my feet to the ground and by lowering my center closer to the ground.  The seat is harder (cuz 1 ½ inches of padding came off) but I am on the pegs a lot anyway and women are blessed (??) with a little more cushion back there.  

I have been meaning to take it out on the motocross track to see how it does out there with the loss of travel.  You aren't going to clear the logs as easily, but logs shouldn't slow you guys down.....

Kip, My KTM dealer rides the 200 EXC and the 400 EXC and absolutely can't decide which he likes better.  He says the 4-stroke 250 is underpowered.  I've ridden the 400 a little and am very envious of the electric start and the smooth delivery of the 4-stroke, but for me it is not worth the increased weight and extra muscling it needs in the tight woods – although they lightened up the 2004 version.

Paul – you are right on – when I couldn't have a Penton, I felt the KTM was the closest thing.  But the radiator is a pain – too big a target for the trees....

[Paul Danik]

Lynn,
   Being almost qualified for midget status myself, I would be interested in who to contact to have my KTM "custom tailered".  I know for a fact that several of my 1 MPH highsides could have won the big prize on "World's Funniest Videos".  

    I have had to replace my radiator shrouds from a couple of close encounters with some trees, but luckily that was the extent of the damage.

     I feel that riding my 125 EXC is just like riding my 125 Penton.  I like the "hit" and really working the gearbox.  I have ridden the 200 and actually don't like all of that bottomend, but I may have to ride Chad's bike some more and re-evaluate it.    I bought a new 250 EXC before I bought the 125 and  could never get used to all of the power, we ride really tight woods and I was always locking up the rear wheel to slide between the trees and it would stall out.  The 125 just rolls along and restarts after I let off the brake.  

   I have known many riders to convert to KTM from some other brand, but I don't think many have left a KTM to ride brand X.


Paul

[Rocket]

Lynn,
I have ridden radiator bikes for 15+ years and have only ruined one raditator.  The benefits of a water cooled bike far outweigh an air cooled, in my opinion.  Constant power, longevity of piston life and not nearly as finicky jetting.
Paul,
You need to ride Chad's 200 a little more, so easy to go fast with.  Very seldom ever need to use first gear, pulls so good in second-third-fourth, etc.  Short shift the 200, and let the torque carry you through.  I tried to ride my buddies 125 SX last year in the woods and it was hopeless for me.  Probably all in what you get used to.
Rocket
Rocket

[dirtbike]

Rocket...
I disagree some. I have ridden more water cooled bikes then I can list starting in 1984. For serious competition there is no option since these bikes is tuned to race GP's or Nationals. The water cooling is neccesary on a bike that tuned, at least on most warmer countries.
The downside is that the radiators can break (expensive). There is no thermostat regulating the temperature and the impeller is often a problem area. With the water in it, it's heavier too. I'm not aware of any modern MX bike with the piston life span of a maico 250 or KTM before 1983. Not counting in Honda XR's. All european Open Class bikes of the past have a piston life span far far longer then any modern two or four stroke MX bike.

As for power, a mildly ported 360cc with a powerband reminding of the Husky 360 for example, air cooled and all could run even with anything below 250cc today. It could easily be made to outlast everything new with new technique/material and a lower RPM.

I think that the sweetness of new bikes is a combo of ergonomics, geometry, suspension, clutch action, brakes and such. All these factors doesn't really cost money. It's just as expensive to design a bad ergonomic. Well maybe a good suspension would cost a bit more ?
Just imagine what will happen to the new four strokes when they turn 15 years and a top end rebuild will cost $2500+ and the bike is worth $1500-. You know the KTM's, YZF's, Bergs and CRF's shouldn't surf on the reliability reputation founded by the XR series.

I'd say that todays bikes is better race machines and too extreme to be restorable or collectable in the future. I don't think they have any upside to offer us 40+ years riding for recreation. And we are a large group of people, growing larger fast...

[tomale]

All I've got to ride at this point is my 76' 250 MC5 I am finally learning to ride it maybe really for the first time. While I was on vacation this summer in the high mountains of Idaho I got the chance to ride a 97 360 exc I think. It was sure fast and I love the power and once I was on the bike and it was started it felt really great but getting to that was a bit of a challenge. I am not a large man but I look that way on my bike. my in seam is only 32 inches. Starting that 360 was a bear. It was almost too much power... I can hardly believe I am saying that. In the tight woods I could see how that could be a problem. It really does not fit how I ride or for that matter wear but It was sure fun.
I am in the process of rebuilding a XR200R for my son. It will be the first time that I have ever ridden a fourstoke any bigger that a XL100 It was my sons first bike and he loved it but he is too big for that now and it was fun to play on but too small for any serious fun. I look forward to seeing what a real 4stoke rides like.
I would love a newer thumper but who can afford them?

Thom Green,I own and ride a 76 250 MC5 MX which I bought new.

[LynnCamp]

Paul,
I think the shocks and seat cutting are best done by someone who can measure you on the bike – sitting, on the pegs, bouncing, etc.  I had mine done in Illinois by Borrelli Racing Suspension (Garry Borelli 815-539-6493).  He would be more than happy to talk to you over the phone and might know someone in your area of the world.  

A POGer also told me about Davey Durelle (877-737-7337) with Durelle Racing who could do it – I don't know where he is located.  Following is an email he sent me:
"It wouldn't be problem to lower your bike that much.  Most dirttrack
applications are about 5 inch's.  Depending on your application and your
weight would determine how much we would have to change spring rates.  But
it can be done!  The cost is going to be about 500.00 and that would include the springs..."

Larry also told me about suspension specialists that runs an ad in the back of one of the magazines, but I don't have his name with me now.  Maybe Larry can weigh in on the name.

You won't regret it and you might save yourself some injuries!!!  I really got tired of high siding and my hands were taking an awful beating from bailing off.  I think I have the best of both worlds now – vintage height and modern technology.

[john durrill]

Dirtbike,
 I agree with you, the idea of a modern machin with the advantages of the older air cooled open class 2 strokes. This is one we did in 1991 and for the same reasons you went over in the above post. We looked at the modern bikes at that time. A cr 250 for example had a recomendation to change pistons at 20 hrs. Thats not for me.
 We did a 79 400 KTM. Went through the engine, replaced the forks with a set off an XR250 we had in the garage, complete with disk brake. Bought some good shocks ( works performance). restored the complet bike as a rider. It worked great and could stay with the new CR250's we were riding with. acctualy it worked better in the woods than the crs.
http://us.f1f.yahoofs.com/bc/7c3115a5/bc/79+ktm400+1.jpg?bf00hw_AubUAme8Q
 John D.

[dirtbike]

John..
Is the link leading to a pic?
Can´t see it, I think one has to be logged in somewhere which I'm not!

How can I check the bike out?