transmission question

[tanz]

Has anybody heard of this? When I start my 77 400, after it has sat for a few days or weeks, and I drop it into first gear the bike moves backwards upon letting the clutch out. The first time it happened I shut it down thinking it was running backwards. When it happens now I just slip it up into second then drop it back down into first and it is fine. Has anybody heard of or experienced this?
Thanks
Steve

[DKWRACER]

Coriolous effect, happens when so. of the equator, (humor) happens when it is best recognized....but seriously, the answer might be something for all to learn.....

[Dwight Rudder]

Point the front end DOWNHILL not UP.
HEHEHEHE,
[)]

Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.

[Steve Minor]

That's a new one on me.....I have had my 400 crank and run backward's though.

[firstturn]

tanz,
  Just wondering what oil you are using (weight/type/brand) and have you done any recent work or updates on the clutch since this started???

Ron Carbaugh

[dirtbike]

I have been thinking about this for a while but it sounds so strange that I would call it close to impossible. Assuming that the engine turns forwards and we see it from the left (kickstarter) side. The crank turns counter-clockwise. Then the clutch basket, clutch and the second shaft just has to move clockwise. Then we have the final shaft with the sprocket at the end which just has to turn counter-clockwise again.

What I was thinking was, maybe you don't really get it in first gear when this happens. It might not be engaged and then the oil or anything loose in the gearbox tries to turn it over in the same direction as the clutch shaft. Does it move backwards with force, like an engaged gear or does it drag slightly backwards?

Oh man, that was odd!

[tomale]

I did not think that was even possible. I would have to say that this should be looked into. Has the bike sat for a long time? Is the oil old and is it causing the transmission to not shift correctly because the oil is goo...eee ? old oil can get thick and cause all sort of problems. oil does not last forever. If so it would be worth cleaning it out and checking the clutch too. Is the clutch sticky ? Let us know what you find. Good hunting

Thom Green,I own and ride a 76 250 MC5 MX which I bought new.

[Kip Kern]

Check your timing, it is too close to TDC.  This was a commom problem on the big bores.

[firstturn]

Steve,
  OK, back from Mother's Day visit and ready to try and guess on this situation.
  To address Kip's response I think Steve said it really wasn't started up backwards because if he shifted it to second and back to first it would be OK.  Is this correct?
  Sooo...Steve if you answer the questions I originally ask I think I know where to go with a answer (I'm not saying it will be the only answer, but it is what I have observed).

Disclaimer:I'm not one of the experts on KTM, but I have worked on what my sidekick calls a lot of "STUFF".

Ron Carbaugh

[tanz]

Ok, I'll try to answer some of the questions you guys have thrown at me.
  Thom and Ron: the oil has been changed, I believe I used 10-30 with some transmission fluid mixed in. I was having a problem with the clutch slipping at higher RPMs so I pulled the clutch checked the plates and scuffed them up, then assembled it using a dial indicator. The slipping problem is gone, the reverse thing happened before and after changing the oil and the clutch work.

Dirtbike: It does seem to do it when the oil is cold (I dont recall it doing it after having ridden the bike, only when first started after sitting) but the other day when it happened I was facing downhill in my driveway and when I started to let the clutch out it climbed backwards uphill.

Kip: As far as the timing I have not checked it but that would mean the engine is running backwards (my first thought) but to remedy the problem I just click it up into second and then down into first again (without shutting it off or even moving the bike) and it works fine.

DKWRACER: Maybe this bike is setup for south of the equator

This is a strange one but I have put a few miles on the bike without any other problems. Let me tell you though that first ride I was a little apprehensive about shifting up through the gears at speed, but its been fine.

Thanks again
Steve
Ps: if it is still doing it next October I'll show you guys in person at the ISDTRR

[tlanders]

There is really a very simple explanation for this - you are starting off by shifting into reverse!!!! Just follow the "H" pattern on the shift lever, then you will be able to find reverse, first, etc. easily. Just email me if you need any other difficult questions answered, there will be a slight fee however, but this one's on me.

Teddy

[firstturn]

Teddy,
 I like your answer, now what is that frame number[)].

Tanz,
  I have seen this phenomenon twice.  One time the clutch plates were installed wrong and once assembled corectly with new oil it worked properly.  The second time was corrected by taking the plates out and cleaning the steel ones and lightly bead blasting the fabric plates.  What I feel was happening was with little torque and cold oil some of the plates were sticking together and causing the out drive to turn in reverse -UNDER NO LOAD.  The engine corrected itself with hot oil or shfting it to another gear.  Basically same with the other engine.
  This happened back in the '70 and early '80's and was diagnosed  as stated.  Just to set the record straight my teacher (Mr. Leone) and I named the case "Creep".  Hope this helps , and as always if someone has a better answer we both stand to learn more:).


Ron Carbaugh

[OUCWBOY]

Many moons have passed since I have heard that term. But as I shake out the cob webs, I do recall such term.

Donny Smith

[Speedy]

KTM had several models which did that once in a while and we found that it was indeed the TDC timing.A 250 EXC in 1986 on the start of an enduro,run backwarts and spit the rider off.
Speedy------>>>>>>>>>

Helmut Clasen KTM
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[email protected]
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