penton prices

[CharlieT]

Ok, first things first. I have no intention whatsoever of selling my Penton!!!

Over the years I would periodically check around and see what these things were going for, sometimes with the thought of getting another one....a "daily-driver" so to speak.

Lately I've noticed a couple of steel-tankers similar to mine on ebay. For the condition they were decribed as being, I was astounded by the prices. I had thought I had had a decent idea of their worth. Then I noticed on here in another thread a comment concerning not letting teh Italians find out. ?

SO what's the deal on this? Mywife saw some of the prices on ebay adn immediately asked how much mine was insured for!!!!!

[firstturn]

Charlie T,
  First of all the thing on the Italians is there was not that many Steel Tankers sold in that country as well as other countries except of course the USA.  Since the Bike was the brain child of John Penton and he was responsible to sell them or see the bike go away we (USA) got most of the bikes.  Collectors from other countries that like KTM now like to add early Pentons(built by KTM) to their collections.  So the prople from Italy and other countrys that have good economies are willing to pay more for something they cannot purchase in their own country.
  The only way to tell what your bike is worth actually and in the real world in to put it on ebay.  As for a guess on how much it is worth I would be happy to look at pictures and tell you what I would pay for if I was interested.  Remember that certain years bring more money because they are more desirable by different people.  Also certain models will be valuable and above market then go cold on price.  It is a market of supply and demand.  I hope this clears up your questions.  Also I would be happy to tell you what I would insure it for if you need this information.  Remember I am just trying to help and there are plenty of experts that can also help.
Regards,

Ron Carbaugh

[Larry Perkins]

There are several thoughts on what something is worth.  

One is what something is worth and what something brings at auction is two different things.  What its worth is the day in day out value it will bring which is often lower than auction price.  What it brings at auction is determined on the number of bidders and their intensity on proving how bad they want it.  An example is an item on eBay that has two bidders that have said to themselves, "I am going to own this".  In that scenario it is only the limit of the pocketbook that finally determines the price.  

With the Italians another factor is added.  They have a PASSION for the old KTM or as we call them Penton motorcycles and there they are in short supply.  If you do the math and add Passion and auction the sky is often the limit.  

Another thought on what something is worth is what it brought.  When something brought Silly Money or High Dollar my Grandpa used to say, "That's what it's worth.  He just proved it".  In other words if it brought that it was worth that.

So what is your Penton steel tanker worth?  Who knows anymore?  EBay has made guessing the value of anything futile.  However, many Vintage and Post-Vintage bikes value is on the rise especially Pentons.  Every year I have gone to Mid-Ohio in the last five years I see a Penton I would like to own but stupid $$ are being asked for it and I pass saying, "That's too high".  Then the next year prices have risen to a point to where I wish I had bought the one from the last year because it is now a buy.  Stupid money or stupid person?  Time will tell.  

Where does it all end you ask?  One of three places and two of them are bad.  Either at the point where the average blue collar guy can't afford one(BAD), or at a point that levels off down the scale a bit(GOOD), or at a very low point because the economy has taken a whomp and the price is low but no one wants one or can splurge on one because the basics are all that is being covered(BAD).

I have sold some very nice Pentons in the last few years most at prices that would be steals in today's market.  Ten years from now I may wish I had sat on them and gotten rich because they continue to rise or I may wipe my forehead and say, " I'm glad I don't have a garage full of those now".  

Whatever the case, enjoy today and let the speculators speculate.  What does it matter what it is worth if you don't want to sell it?Contrary to popular belief I owned most of my Vintage bikes to relive a day from my past that was a kinder easier time and not to get rich.  It was a time that was lost in the rush of adulthood and the pinch of technology pushing 'The Envelope'.  My life has been blessed by it coming around for one last ride.

[CharlieT]

I am kind of familar with market values, especially in small specialty segments, we've raced shifter karts for years. I've also been to auctions, such as a Police auction adn watched two guys get in a bidding war over a used weapon, such as Ruger .44 carbine and end up 20% over what they could have walked down the street to a gunshop and bought a brandnew one!!!

The thing I didn't understnad was the italian reference relating to high prices. Wasn't aware that they were such a collectors item abroad.

I certainly didn't buy my Penton to try and make any money off it by reselling it. See I bought it 31 years ago. Making money off it was far from my mind back then. Even though I was racing aKaw 250 at the time, I had always wanted one of the Pentons when they first came out  and when I came across this one, I happened to have the $400 dollars the guy was asking for it. I have kept the bike along with one other bike ( my very first bike, a Honda S65) over the years while 15-20 others have come and gone. The reasons I keep it is that it still reminds me of those days and to me it simply has those beautiful classic lines of that period. That and my oldest son has already spoken for it. He's into the "classics". He drives a '63 Ford Falcon and his streetbike, or as he calls it, his 'baby', is a mint '67 CL77 305 scrambler. He's always had an eye on my Penton..... and I know he would treat it in the manner and style it has become accustomed to!

Probably the main reason my wife brought up the insurnace question is that the bike is not in our posession. It is on display at a KTM dealership 150 miles from here. I have no concern over anything under the control of the dealer, but things do happen, such as fires, thefts, etc.

[CharlieT]

BTW, I know about tryingto bring back those fond old days. ABout '68 I raced a 441 VS. Had Ceriani's suspension all around on it. ANother bike that to me just has those classic lines to it. I had kind of been keeping my eye out for one close by here. Well one showed up on ebay that happened to be only about 20 miles away. SO I went over and looked at it. In very very good shape. It fired a few times on the thrid kick but died.....and fifteen minutes later after both of us were getting exhausted, the fog of those fond memories began to fade away and the more 'real' memories came back......The finicky starting, the kicking like a mule, safety wiring every single nut and bolt on the thing...etc, etc.

[Mike OReilly]

I was the one who made the original comment on Italians after watching the steel tankers on Ebay and having a look at who the buyers were. I did that because some the ratio of amount paid versus the condition of the item was absolutely absurd.
A couple of points in addition to what the others have added:
-KTM always had (and I think still does) have a strong presence in Italy through the distributor Farioli; others know far more about this than me, but Farioli appeared to be very well connected to the factory and I assume to Mr. Penton as well;
-The devaluation of the U.S. dollar to the Euro has made the purchase of American items much, much more affordable over the last few years - exactly the same process that occured in the late '70's and which made the purchase of European items (such as KTM's and all the rest) far more expensive, and which I'm sure played a role in the demise of the Penton marque; add to the devaluation relative prosperity in Western Europe, and so you can add Italian collectors with very deep pockets to the equation;
- finally in regard to Larry's comments in regard to rising prices: Rick Doughty recently mentioned in an article that is impossible to pay too much for something, only to have purchased it too early! (or I suppose, to have sold it too soon?)
Mike

[Mike OReilly]

Speking of which...what did Ron's Berkshire (rectangular airbox, recently on Ebay) finally sell for? I missed it.
Mike

[Don Roth]

Mike.
Our Sheriff managed to lasso someone (stealth mode bidding)
for $3,550.00. Congrats to Ron for a very wise purchase.
-don

[Larry Perkins]

I disagree with the Rick Doughty quote from Mike.  It is true in the right circumstance.  But if the economy goes to hell and that is always a possibility in todays volitile times it is not much good to have cool collectible motorcycles in the garage when your family is hungry.  In that scenario they may like stocks rebound and in twenty more years again be worth alot of money.  If your family went hungry and you lost all your possesions in between you won't have them anymore anyway.  

Rick is spouting from the mouth of a seller in a sellers market.  I hope and pray that they are not words he or his family eats oneday.  He may well be right and it is in the best interest of his business for that to be that way but if I were you I wouldn't bet the farm on it.  Remember that rarely in the course of time does anything remain the same.  Just ask the people that lost their butts when the stock market went bad or the ones whose company sold them or their savings down the river like Enron.  Enjoy but watch how much silly money you throw around.  Never forget that there was a time not that long ago when these bikes and these parts were worthless.

[James]

Larry, well put. I did have to sell my  Penton a few years back. I was lucky that it had a buyer.(you) The price is crazy now but  several hundred $ fed my family at the time. The value of most vintage bikes to me is not just the collectabilty(snob value) but the memories with them. I have learned to not sell my last bike. It has been a tough six years without racing.( my wife was right) Though it is probable I will pick up some bikesand parts that mean much lees to me and will always/ trade/sell. Anyone seen my old bike??  James

You dont stop racing because you get old..you get old because you have children

[Rain Man]

james, you've changed things:)
you don't stop racing cause your old, you get old cause you stopped racing!!!!@
   The children just remember what you've shown them. Like " wheres my wrench" or daddy, isen't this spose to go in first? The children were always my biggest fans, even when I didn't have enough money to buy a tank of gas and a spark plug,  They never cared that i didn't have a semi or a factory contract or a bike that was even competitive. I was doing something daring and exciting, and it was an experience they learned from. Quiterrs never win and winners never quit. And your children will use you for traction when you get to old, cause you showed them how to!![8D]

Raymond
keep right, stay in control (sometimes)

[James]

Raymond, actually my daughter is four, rides a PW50 and beats me at wrestiling on a regular basis. (I am 36, 6'2" and 220 lbs) she is a mean motor scooter already. I met a vintage freind in Tucson when she spotted Montesa painted on his van..she started rattling off.. Look Daddy!
Montesa, Bultaco, Ossa, Penton, Maico, Cz!...on and on.

While visiting relatives in Louisiana this spring, I took her for a ride on an ATV. This thing was scary-pulling up in every gear(she thought it was slow). If Arhma relaxes the under 16 rule I will build her the trickest YZ80 I can.
 James

You dont stop racing because you get old..you get old because you have children

[brokenb23]

James,
 AVDRA now has a 100cc and Pee Wee class. We would be excited to have your daughter smoking some of the guy.
Bob Brizzee