5 speed / 6 speed

[firstturn]

Doug,
  Tom is just trying to make it possible for you to keep his engines up to peak performance where it is warmer.[]  

Ted,
  That is a difficult question since you can change the engine type(by sight) by changing the ignition side cover.  I just don't ever remember working on any 5a's that were in a fiberglass tank bike unless I put them in for a person that had wasted their 5/6B.  I hope this helps.

Ron Carbaugh

[t20sl]

Ok Ron, then what was the difference between 5A and 5B

[Doug Wilford]

One big difference is the 5"B" was never used by Penton as a production engine.   The 5/B was used by Hercules in a Military model.    Penton (Sachs) engines started with the 5/A, then the 6/A then the 6/B  then the 6/D which was a 6/B with the "D" cylinder and head, the"D" cylinder had an intake manifold which used a 30mm Bing and better porting.   There are a few 5/B engines in this country thatI built.    It may be that there are some DKWs in the states with the 5/B.   The major change from the 6/A to the 6/B is the cases were recast to accomodate the smaller wider crankshaft.   When they did the B cases they also cast in larger transfer ports and these protrude over the crank slabs on each side.

[Paul Danik]

Ron,
  According to Ted Penton's article in the August, 1972 Keep'em Winning, which was a newsletter to Penton dealers only, starting with the "B" engines the front motor mount bolt was increased to 10mm from 8 mm. We have yet to find any engines yet that didn't follow that rule, so no matter what the side cover says, a glance at the front motor mount bolt should tell you if you have an "A" engine 8mm, or "B" and later models 10mm. Of course in the 30 some years since the change occured, someone, somewhere, has probably drilled out the front mounting hole on a set of "A" cases.
Paul

[firstturn]

Paul,
  Are you kidding someone would make a change to a Sachs engine?  Well it is back to the drawing board;).

Ron Carbaugh

[chkitout]

Just to add a little more info to this disscussion. I recently acquired a CMF Six Day with with a 5A motor or so it states on the cover. The frame number is 10650167 which if I understand the frame numbers would make it an early CMF bike. It also has the Bosch ignition and the brake and clutch levers are the early type with the finger bumps. I think it is a low hour bike since the orginal fenders are still in good shape so possibly has the orginal motor in it. I will have to check the serial numbers on the motor don't know those.  Walt

[slvrbrdfxr]

Hi all,
I recently picked up a CMF frame bike with same serial # range as chkitout. Although the engine was in a box,it too has a 125/5A bosch ignition engine and seller assured me that it was the original engine. Guess my question is the same as the earlier one. Is it possible for a 5A engine to come in the CMF bikes ??
Thanks !!
Dave McCullough

[OUCWBOY]

I also owned a 72 with frame number in that range with a 5A motor. That bike is now in MI I think.

Donny Smith

[Doug Wilford]

From the looks of the information that is coming in.   The early 72 CMF bikes still had the 5A engine.   That would make the 72 CMF having three different engines, 5A, 6A, and 6B.  I didn't think this was the case.   Thanks to Paul making us awaire of the article in the August 1972 issue of the Penton newsletter, "Keeping Track" that Ted Penton wrote about drilling out the front engine mounts on the 72 frame to fit the "B" engine is proof enough that the "B" engine was introduced in 72.

[Paul Danik]

chkitout
   All research so far has concluded that when the KTM assembly line started production of the CMF machines they started with either serial number 50000 or 50001.  Your bike's serial number of 50167 is so far the earliest CMF Penton on record. The previous lowest number was 50190, both your bike and 50190 were built in June of 1971. Untill we find frame # 50000 we will have to wonder if KTM started with #50000 or #50001, or till some factory production records show up.
    Thank you very much for taking the time to supply us with your Penton's serial number. This is why we need the serial numbers even from bare frames as they help to put the puzzle together. Thanks also to you guys who have been filling out the Steel Tanker questionaire and if you haven't yet filled one out for each of your steel tank Penton's please do so as we hope to gather as much information as possible about those machines for the Steel Tanker book.
Thanks
Paul