Barber - Good, Bad, & Ugly

[Ernie Phillips]

Good: Barber is a world class facility.  The weather was perfect.  Great folks attending the event.  Handlebar tight CC race!  

Bad:  No spectator access to CC event.  The MX was run like a Speedy Carwash.  Instead of taking a 30 minute pause between motos to water the track, we raced on in sometimes dusty conditions.  A water truck was there, too bad it never hit the track.  Charged $25 per person to get in plus $25 camping fee in addition to my AHRMA racing fees.  (At Mid-Ohio, my AHRMA race fee gets me and one crew member in and free camping)

Ugly:  PV Cross Country started early and left Brian Kirby, Teddy Landers and James Smith in the pits.

Many thanks to all the volunteers who make it happen.  Please do not take my observations the wrong way.  Barber Vintage will only get bigger.  I hope it can get better in the process.


Ernie P.
Chattanooga, TN

[Dwight Rudder]

Yes,  They also were shoddy on flipping the moto cards.  Last I saw was Moto 6 on the card and they were starting that race. I was in moto 8.  I went up the hill to get my bike and something to drink and when I got back down .  Moto 8 was leaving the line and I couldn't get a straight answer from anyone about what moto this was.  The second wave of Moto 8 left before I got an answer. I left late and had to work my way up through the second wave class and started up through the experts when they threw the checkered flag.  I didn't take a chance for the second moto and went to get my bike about moto 3.  I got a bad start but finished about 4th in that moto.  Dick Mann asked me later if the throttle was stuck on my Hodaka.  I said no, why ?  He said that he never heard me back off.  LOL
Dwight

[Dwight Rudder]

Seems nobody knew much about where to park when getting your credentials and when awards or signup was to be.  Everything seemed to be in flux and nobody knew when the races were to start, when tech would be open , when sign up would be open. They opened signup at 3 and closed at 5pm. Seemed to be awful short period of time when modern races have signup from about noon until 6pm or even later. And they would take no post entries until Sunday morning which just adds to the confusion.
Dwight

[littlebigmandkw50]

It was good to finally meet you Dwight. I hope Charles Goman ( OSSA SOUTH) had parts you needed. It was also good to see you Ernie ,Christopher and meet Brian. My son and I were also watching how hap hazard every thing was Sunday at the mx race.

[Merlin]

............moto 6 on the track, 7 on the gate, 8 in staging, 5 lap moto + 59 second average lap times = 10 minutes max for you to get to the line,this was the starter/staging peoples fault? The lack of a break was a decision made by Alex Moroz not the starter or staging guy. Perhaps you overlooked what is stated above, if you like I can put in touch with the starter  (Woody Graves) and the staging guy(Kevin Louge) 1 on 1..........by the way, they were volunteers too.........

[Dwight Rudder]

Might have helped if I could have gotten a straight answer from the starters.  I asked a dozen times if this was Moto 8 on the line and nobody would answer me until after the second wave had left and they had put up the rubber band for the next moto. I wasn't the only one that was late for the start. Harry Heidelmann was late also for the same reason. I heard about several others also. When I left what I thought was Moto 6 at the gate and had not started yet. So what you are saying the Motos were only 5 min ?  That is nutz. So I paid $70 for riding 10 minutes for the day ?
That is why I ride mostly cross country events and not MX. BUT, They jumped the gun on the PV Cross Country also.  Leaving behind several experianced AHRMA riders.
Dwight

[Merlin]

..........Dwight I do understand your view however the rest of the competitors somehow made it to the line on time for the starts. In 40 years of racing  from slot cars to stock cars, snowmobiles and oh yes most types motorcycles even a bit of pro road racing I along with several others have missed starts for one reason or another, many times a schedule change , delay, or in this case the pace of the program or some other reason but it does happen. You along with others  missed mx starts but as you explained there were some that missed the start of the CC, you can hardly blame the mx start and staging people for that one..............as far as fees go, camping = Barber, gate for the event = Barber, entry fees of course were standard AHRMA. As far as the lap times for the MX that is what you get with a layout in a flat field, they could have at least gone in to the cleared area of the gully oposite the starting line for sure and put at least a bit of something in the track character instead of Dick Mann's standard military  layout, left right left right left right................

[Dwight Rudder]

There was nothing wrong with Dick's layout. Most thoughly enjoyed the Grass Track type layout. It was with AHRMA's planning.  They know how long it takes to go around the track. They could have had a 10 lap race instead of 5. For a MX to start and finish in 2 to 2 1/2 hrs is silly. Two wrongs don't make it right.

[Ernie Phillips]

Volunteers:  Both Woody and Kevin worked their tails off!  And, how about the guys working the rubber band?  After the first group of riders take off, the guys sprinted to retrieve the band, stretch it and then send the second group off 15-30 seconds later.  They did this all day long. What and effort – bravo!  However, I don't ever want to hear "volunteer" used for an excuse for slip-shod racing events.  Volunteers need to be qualified and motivated.  In most cases they are.

Fees:  AHRMA – $70 post-entry for MX is a rip-off.  This is present AHRMA policy and needs to be changed.  New riders who just show up are turned off, experienced riders who's racing plans change at the last minute are penalized  - - it just leaves a bitter taste.  Our group of riders (6) spent $385 in pre-entry fees.  One of our riders (new AHRMA member) balked at $70 MX post entry fee and set it out.   Is this good for our sport?

Fees:  Barber -- If I had not experienced the great value at Mid-Ohio, I would not have mentioned it.  Our "Lillian Swamp Racing" riders and crew (14 total) spent $350 in admission fees plus $100 in camping fees.  That is $450 more than it cost to attend Mid-Ohio.  I think AHRMA needs to negotiate this with Barber.   Of course, Barber chose to have an Air Show which cost money.  I think the entertainment priorities are mixed up.  The competitors pay AHRMA to race.  Spectators pay to watch the races.  Competitors should not have to pay a spectator fee.  My recommendation is to can the Air Show and give the competitors and crew a break.  For me, Mid-Ohio is the benchmark for racing & entertainment value.

Missed Starts MX:  I was in Moto 8.  I made the start no problem both motos.  Early on I noticed the no-nonsense approach and rapid pace.  It is the rider's responsibility to be there.

Missed Starts PV CC:  That was just a bad deal.  Remote starting location combined with poor communication lead to experienced riders being left behind.  Surely AHRMA will refund fees.
To prevent reoccurrence, I recommend:
1.  AHRMA invest in a bull horn for CC race officials.
2.  Have race official go through pits with bull horn announcing race start in 5 minutes.
3.  2 minutes before start, official places bull horn over Brian Kirby's ear and tells Brain to get to the line –NOW!
4.  Race starts on time.
5.  Everybody happy

MX Lap Times:   You don't get much racing time at these nationals.  For experienced riders who are in condition, you are left feeling short-changed.  For those who are in poor physical condition, the race is too long.  Since I was having to come from behind, I wanted longer motos.  I was pleased with the 1 hour open practice.  At M-O, I got 3 laps practice.  I like left-right-left racing but there was too much of the long straights.  If the gully had been included we would have had a better race for both competitors and spectators.  New track and off-road pits next year.  I wonder who is laying out the track?  Will PV-MX be included?  Could be real mess if not well planned and executed.

As I stated in my original post, Barber will get bigger.  We all want it to get better at the same time.  Part of making it better is to recognize the things that need to change and work toward a solution.  Have a good day ...


Ernie P.
Chattanooga, TN

[brian kirby]

I was late to the PV cross country start, but I am not sure they started early. Teddy Landers and James Smith were with me so we were all late. I knew I was late, my bike wouldnt start and I asked while we were working on it what time it was and was told "11:01" so I knew I was late. My sister worked the scoring computer for both CC races and she said I was 6+ minutes late by the time I got to the line. Teddy thought they started early, my sister said they started early, and they might have, but it was my own fault that I was late because of my (self inflicted) bike problems. Even if they started early I should have been there in plenty of time and I cant blame them for that.

MX was run a bit fast, but they had to do that last year too, there is a time limit they can have racing going on (probably a city noise ordinance) so they dont have much choice. They have to be done by that time no matter what so the races are run as fast as reasonable with that in mind.

The $70 post entry fee, outside of races like Mid Ohio and Daytona/Ocala that only accept pre-entry, should be eliminated. I know it causes a lot more work load for the already taxed volunteers that do the thankless task of getting us jokers straight at the signup tables, but it seems like $35 would have been better than $0. The last thing I want is to make Patty Root and Irene Smith have to do more work than they already do, but the $70 post entry does discourage first timers. Maybe waive the post entry fee for first time entrants?

Brian

'72 Six Day (on loan from Ernie P.)

[Merlin]

......Ernie, have you or the other critics on this thread ever worked, run or promoted an event or are you just on the soapbox of the key board? The effort needed to run a quality small local event is a bunch of work for just 100 entries let alone more at a large venue and running it to keep the competitors and host happy. AHRMA has pre-entry to discourage post entry, they are kind enough to offer it (post entry) at a price, if it makes you feel better I pre-entered 3 classes but could not make it so I guess I should be here looking for someone to blame beside myself??
 Slip shod event,hhhmmmm, why are you directing you anger toward Woody and Kevin, you implying they are not qualified?? If this is the case I would suggest entering an //FLVMX.com race where Woody does run the show, not just the starting line, very different indeed. As for the volunteer remark, they were not paid, unlike some others that were not doing much..............

[Dwight Rudder]

I for one have worked and promoted many races in the past 36 years.
Things could have been done a bit better and the post entry is rediculus.  I preentered the CC but circumstances changed so I could attend the MX also. I applaude the volunteers but there has to be a better way. I still think they were slow flipping the cards at times.
Dwight

[Ernie Phillips]

Merlin,  Please reread both of my posts.  I'm not angry nor  criticizing the individuals you name.  I want Barber to become the BEST and my observations were directed at making Barber a better event. I'm sorry if my comments came across as "soapbox of the keyboard."   My apologies to the POG as well.  I have not served as a volunteer at an AHRMA event.  Over & out.



Ernie P.
Chattanooga, TN

[Knute]

Ernie,

I found your post to be very objective and appropriate.  No event is perfect and you are clearly critiquing the event with the goal of making it even better in the future.

Kent

[paul]

Gee, I am glads I didn't drive my gas hog down from Charlotte. That would add another $200 to the trip. Sounds like fun thou. How close do they tech the bikes? can you get a lectron in on a 74 250 ? I think ahrma has a prob with those carbs on vintage bikes but cant say from experience. easy go, TTPaul