Penton/KTM production statistics

[454MRW]

Has any of the information regarding the production statistics that Kalman Czeh mentioned from Mr. Trunkenpolz's notes at the POG meeting at the museum become available yet? I am interested in the possibility of roughly determining the break point between the 1976 MC5 and the 1977 Model, which shared the beginning serial number of 550, as approximated by the number of each produced for each specific year, 76 vs. 77. Also 78 vs. the early introductory 79 MX-6, which shared the 78 chassis and beginning serial number of 855. Since the serial numbers were reportedly the same according to Kalman for shipments to various countries as the US imports, I would think that an estimate could be made, of course understand that the findings from Mr. Trunkenpolz notes would be have to be approxomated as to when they changed from one model year to the next. With the production figures that Kalman gave of roughly 30-45 units per day, it could clarify somewhat as to the actual model year for some bikes and make the choice easier for using the appropriate tank decals on those bikes that are long missing the tank decals. Thanks, Mike

Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1980 KTM 175-400'S

[rob w]

Mike,
 I still have to run with the theory that 550's with a single plate at the rear exhaust mount are '76's, and those with a "U" shaped bracket at the rear of the frame are '77's. As far as determining which tank decals properly fit the model year - that factor has fit the mold for every one that I've run across.
If it does have the single plate at the rear of the frame, call it a '76 - they're more rare, and I like the style of the decals better.  

What is the frame number of your 550 in question ?

Bob

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[454MRW]

Bob,
I have several at last count, both complete bikes and bare frames or chassis, a total of at least 6. I also have 4 or 5 855 serail number 78-early 79 MX-6's, and I know that 2 of them are MX-6's positively. I will have to check when I get home about the flat plate vs the U-shaped on the 76-77's, with rectangular rear side seat mount area. Most of mine are the later style, but very low serial number like 1376, even with the u-shaped frame. I find it hard to believe that it is a 77 with that low of a serial number. I have 2 that were probably built the same day since the numbers are so close together, both with the u-shape, a 400 and a 250. The 250 has a 6- engine serial number, but I'll have to verify the serial numbers when I get back home Thursday evening from work. Mike

Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1980 KTM 175-400'S

[Kip Kern]

I have the production stats in my KTM book I got a few years back from Italy.  Wonder if they are the same as we are waiting for???

[tofriedel]

Mike,

If this is of any benefit, I had a 78 MC 400 with serial # 85509014 and engine # of 8-5506690.

Tony

[454MRW]

Kip,
Any shared information is welcome and appreciated. Kalman had Mr Trunkenpolz notes which had production figures incuding shipments sent to different countries and might shed a little more light on the subject, but I am not sure whether the data has been received or overlooked at this point. I am assuming that Paul or someone was receiving copies of it, but I am not sure. My email is [email protected] if you think that the information in the book would be helpful for figuring this out to some extent.
Tony,
The MX-6's that I have found started around serial number 855-10315 and higher. Thanks, Mike

Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1980 KTM 175-400'S

[Kip Kern]

Mike

I can bring the KTM book to Mid Ohio and you are more than welcome to check it out.  (It covers 68-93 production I believe) Remind me the week of Mid Ohio so I don't forget, getting bikes ready for delivery right now so very busy[:0]

[454MRW]

Kip,
Thanks, I will put it on my to do list! Also thank you Dane for checking on the information. Mike

Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1980 KTM 175-400'S

[454MRW]

Bawb,
I finally got around to checking the serial numbers on all of the 76/77 MC5 chassis to see which had the flat plates at the rear of the seat, and which had the rectanguar section and found the following 550 frame MC5 #'s, which have the flate plate rear frame design:
#1111 frame
#1518 frame
#1653 complete 125 less engine
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The following all have the rectangular rear frame sections:
#3326 250 complete bike single position foot pegs
#3379 400 dual position pegs with un-original 76 400 engine
#5680 125/175 dual position peg frame
#6132 125/175 dual position peg frame
#6376 250/400 spare parts weak frame with dual position pegs.
With using the low side of the production estimates of 30-45
bikes produced per day by Kalman at the museum meeting, the chance of # 3326 and # 3379 being produced within a couple days of each other are very likely, one with single position pegs, and the later the dual position pegs, and it also bring to attention that the flat plate at the rear of the frame and the rectangular section change may have occured within 113 days of production or less, (5 months assuming 22 working or week days per month), based on the sampling of frames/bikes that I have, if frame production started with # 0001. That would seem to suggest that production of the MC5, especially in 1976 was very low if the frame change was near the model year change.
I also have a couple early 74 250 HS frames
# 54 311 69784 and
# 54 312 70346 and for comparision in production estimates, a complete 74.5 175 Enduro model with
# 54 411 78965 and a complete 1976 250 Cross Country Enduro that has frame
# 54 601 68195
It seems to me that the frame serial #'s continued to sequentially increase though similar design frames and only resarted the numbering sequences on certain design changes to the frames or models. Mike

Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1980 KTM 175-400'S

[454MRW]

Kip,
Please try to remember and bring the KTM book to Mid-Ohio and I will copy down some of the information for reference. I am leaving this evening after some last minute loading and packing, so I won't have computer access after this post, but I will try to give you a call this afternoon if time permits. Thanks, Mike

Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1980 KTM 175-400'S