Gold Hare Scrambler Questions

[Paul Danik]

In the production year guide it states the following

* October 1973 was the last of the gold Hare Scramblers

My question is, would serial # 54 309 68125 be a gold or red Hare Scrambler?  I realize that the build date 309, is September of 1973, but does anyone have a machine that is close to this one and can tell me how it is configured?  

Also, Hare Scrambler serial # 54 306 66440 has the black engine with a silver cylinder, can someone shed some light on when they went from the black cylinder to the silver cylinder? This machine was attained from the original owner who states that nothing has been changed on it since new, but, shouldn't it have a black cylinder


Thanks
Paul

[Larry Perkins]

Paul,

At Odessa Sales and Rentals; where I worked then, we never got one that did not have a silver cylinder but black bottom end.  We sold a ton of those bikes.  I think the most in our region.  By the fall of 73 we got a batch of 250's from Penton Central and there were red and gold tanks but all had the black motor with silver top end.  These bikes had the fiberglass numberplate instead of the metal pipe guard with oval numberplate like the first 73 250's we had gotten.  The next batch of bikes were all red tanks with the silver motor top and bottom.  The next batch we got I think in March of 74 and there was red tank silver motor bikes with regular swing arm and red tank silver motor bikes with the 74.5 multi-position swing arm.  I remember Mr. Golden throwing a fit about this and we hid the newer ones till we sold the others.  This probably takes you through the history of this bike from my perspective a bit further than you wanted.  I just never sold a totally black motored 73 250.  The 175 bikes we got were all black but not the 250.  I sometimes think that Penton Central was the step child though as sometimes to get what we wanted we had to go through Lorain.  I am curious to hear other perspectives from other shops on this bike.

Larry P

[Paul Danik]

Larry,

Thanks for the response, and I am glad for ALL of the information that I can get on these machines.

  This picture shows two Goldies with totally black cylinders
http://gallery.pentonusa.org/gallery/album06/DSC09469

What confuses me is that machine # 54 306 66440 should be a relatively early Goldie, and I would have thought it might have had an all black engine, as shown in the pictures.  Hopefully we can get some guys to post the serial numbers of their machines along with telling about the color of their cylinder. As we all know, there is sometime no rhyme or reason to the changes that I am asking about, but then again maybe there is in this case.  

As for 54 309 68125, it is the machine that was ported and prepared for MX by Jerry Majors of Grapevine, Texas.  I have had a few emails telling me that he was a really top notch engine guy and that he custom tuned the pipes to go along with his porting work, hence it does not have the original Goldie style exhaust, but I am curious to find out if it might have been born a Goldie.

I just went thought the file of paperwork that Bob Kent supplied with 54 309 68125, the original MSO states that this bike was transferred to John Long of Husky of Dallas from Penton Central.  Ric Kent states that it was raced by John Long till he got a factory Bultaco ride,  John was seriously injured a few months later ending his racing.  Ric Kent later bought the Penton from John Long.  Maybe some of you guys know of John Long, possibly you might even know Ric Kent, he was also into high horsepower boat racing, Ric is from the Dallas area.

Thanks
Paul

[Larry Perkins]

Paul,

Are the bikes pictured original or redone?  If redone did the owners think they should be black and that is how they ended up that way or where they already black topends?  Curious to know.

Larry P

[Kip Kern]

How about a early goldie with aluminum fenders?  I have a photo of one at Penton late 72 early 73

[Rocket]

I have a brochure that shows the first 250 with aluminum fenders.  I wonder if any came to the states with aluminum fenders?  I will check the serial number of my 73, it has a silver cylindar.  I also have a early 73 motor that has a black cylindar, will check date code on that also and post.
Rocket

[Rocket]

Kip
Checked my spare motor and the serial number is 3-5400616, build date March 1973 with a silver barrel.

My 73 yellow tanked 250, motor serial number 54-01174, frame 54 30969248, another silver barrel.  This bike must be one of the last of the yellow tank bikes.
Rod

[crash carden]

Hello guys,I am the proud owner of an Oct. 1973 yellow 250 Penton Harescrambler and it is a very original low miles bike. It has a black head and black bottom end with a silver cylinder.The head fins were milled so they are highlighted against the black but the cylinder fins are just raw cast silver. It came with white plastic Falk fenders and the fiberglass heat shield/# plate. It has a large CEV head light with cutaway metal # plate mounted on top. It even has the original leather tool bag and rack. Frame # 54 31068705 motor #5430126. I got this bike from the west coast from the second owner, this guy told me that the original owner told him that the 73 yellow 250s that were shipped to the west coast all had silver cylinders. I don't know how true that is but thats what he said.
Now for some insight on the early 1973 yellow 250s! My brother and I were at the 1973 spring enduro in Burr Oak Indiana we had just pulled in and were unloading our bikes, he had a 1972 Ossa Pioneer 250 and I had my 1973 Penton 175. All of a sudden about 20 feet behind us we heard someone fire up a big bore 2 stroke that had a unique and solid sound! We looked at each other and said in harmony what the heck is that! As we both spun around on our heels there was a guy standing by his brand new 1973 Penton 250 Harescrambler warming it up for a test ride. What a beautiful machine! It had the solid black motor with highlighted fins ,the slotted metal heat sheild with a green metal # plate below,a yellow enduro tank, and it had alloy fenders, and the small CEV head light and the tiny black metal oblong CEV tail light mounted on the rubber flap. The Burr Oak spring enduro was run around June 15th or so and this Harescrambler 250 was brand new and going for its first race. So there you have it they did come to the USA with alloy fenders. I also saw a few more 73 250s after that at other races in Indiana and Ohio with alloy fenders as well. I will never forget that bike and the sound of the motor as I thought it was the coolest[8D]bike and I wanted one as well. But it was all I could do to handle my Jackpiner as I was just a skinny 19 year old kid. So in 2003 when I had the chance to buy a 1973 Penton 250 yellow Harescrambler I was all over it! The yellow 73 250s are one of my favorite Pentons and I feel that they are one of the rarest. Thats my 73 yellow 250 Harescrambler story! Hope that helps you out Paul, Later Crash Carden.  
                               You gotta LOVE those Pentons! []

[Paul Danik]

From what Rocket said,

 "My 73 yellow tanked 250, motor serial number 54-01174, frame 54 30969248, another silver barrel. This bike must be one of the last of the yellow tank bikes"

Leads me to believe that my serial # 54-309 68125 with motor number 1232 with a black engine except for the silver cylinder was born a Goldie..

Crash, your # 54 310 68705 also really helps to make it a sure thing. My earlier Goldie has engine # 3-5400341  It seems that they were not real particular about taking the engines in any certain order.

Thanks to all of you guys for your input. Any more Goldie owners out there with some numbers and info to share..
Paul

[Rocket]

Paul
Something I forgot to mention, my spare motor, serial # 3-5400616 has the smaller kicker shaft also.  The later one has the larger shaft.  I remember they had trouble with the early ones breaking the shafts when starting.

Crash
The yellow 250 is one of my favorites also, love the yellow and the "unique" pipe silencer.
Rod

[marsattacks]

In the hope that it might provide a little "new" information, here is a crudely translated passages from our friends in Italy.  It appears that, at least in the European models, there were some differences in the tank seams and petcocks as between the yellow and red MX tanks.  Some of the very knowledgeable posters there provide a few ways to tell a yellow tank from a red one and therefore spot an original gold tanker.   Of course one always must account for exceptions at the KTM factory. In addition, I suppose there could be more significant differences between European and US models.

"To recognize the real models is enough .... Peek inside the tank, and see if the tank
inside is really yellow and not riverniciato! (whatever that means)
And also, here's another to see a particular difference:   above all, the attachment of the taps (brass models'73 screwed directly into the fiberglass,
instead screwed through the fillet drowned in fiberglass): Also there is a different height filler on the tank."

The posters go on to discuss other sometimes minute differences and to supply photographs, but none of that translates or copies over too well from the Italian site.






click here to see Mars attack)
http://www.ufodigest.com/news/0208/images/marsattacks.jpg

To watch the best parts of Mars Attacks!, click here (9 mins long):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp3llVQh__Q

[Kip Kern]

I have an early "73" and am planning on putting aluminum fenders on it with the slotted heat shield on the pipe like the one in the first brochure.  Will check the frame dates on my "73" frame pile to see what they are.  Thanks for the info guys! Ciao

[Kip Kern]

I forgot, check your number of engine case screws, 6mm x 65,  on the right side of the engine, the real early black engines , late 72, early 73,  had one less screw holding the cases together.  If memory serves me correctly, it is the bottom center screw that is missing.  I have also noticed this on early black Piner engines too.  The cases must have leaked so KTM added another screw on later castings.  I have rebuilt several engines like this and thought it very interesting.  Kinda like finding Magnesium Sachs engine cases, too cool!

[Paul Danik]

John,

   You may be onto something, after I read your post I lined up the 6 MX tanks that I have here and sure enough the top of the filler is about 2mm higher on the original Goldie MX tank, and there is a big difference in the top seam. On the original Goldie MX tank the seam is 4mm wide and on the others it much wider, about 12mm. I will be going over the shop today and will check out the other MX tanks that are mounted up on machines and see what I find, I am really curious now to see if the red MX tank on the other Goldie, as determined by serial number, has a narrow seam.

   This got me to wondering why they would change the mold at this time on the MX tanks, then it struck me that maybe the original Gold MX tanks might have been the first MX tanks that they produced and that they were going through a learning curve. The same thing happened with the steel tanker tanks, the earlier ones have more metal in front of the mounting holes than the later ones, I think this was done to allow them to be removed easier while the seat was still on. When you place a number of them together it is very obvious, but when you just look at one here and there it isn't as noticeable, and there are a few other difference.

   In researching the Gold machines I went through the Keep'em Winning Penton dealer newsletters and found a picture of a Goldie in the April 1973 issue on the cover, the picture was taken in front of the Penton R&D building. If you attended the 40/10 event you know exactly where I am speaking of. The Goldie is referred to as the New Penton Mint 250cc in the caption and it states they they will be on their way soon. I found this interesting because the earliest serial number build dates we have seen is June of 1973, and this was the April issue. Also, in the February issue I read where the Penton West guys were into the Mint 400 race big time, putting two and two together might provide a reason why the Mint name was considered at first, then thinking that they would later have a 400 Penton they decided to "save" that name for the larger displacement machine.  I also think that the name Hare Scrambler related better to the east coast riding and they might not have wanted to send a signal that this was a desert sled, just my thoughts.....

In the November of 1972 issue Ted Penton tells of Ziegfried "Freddy" Stuhlberger's visit to Penton Imports and credits Freddy with the development of the KTM engine.  Ted goes on to explain that when Freddy left so did the 250, Proto Model, so that is where the Goldie came from on the cover of the April issue....

In the December issue it states that they hoped to unveil the 250 at dealer school in February, and that they had just signed Moisseiev and Rulev to campaighn the 250 in the 1973 Grand Prix circuit.

In the July issue John tells of a connecting rod breaking while a 250 engine was on a dyno test, leading to the scrapping of 1000 rods and the tear down of 75 engines, John then stated " You must understand that again a small company such as Penton Imports cannot afford to have such problems as this or we are bankrupted the next day". He then goes on to tell of what costs were incurred with the Motoplat issues...

Sorry if this is long, but it seemed to me that a number of you are interested in the fine details.  John, thanks for the Italian insight, it is interesting that others in far off lands are also tracing back the history of this very interesting machine.

Paul

[Paul Danik]

Larry,

   Do remember if any of the Gold HS came in with MX tanks on them, it just seems like there are a lot of them around, and yet I don't see hardly any yellow toaster tanks about.

Thanks
Paul