AMA VMD vs AHRMA: United we stand, div

[Larry Perkins]

Ernie,

You are a good guy in my book and a man of principles.  As my Grandpa used to say, "You have a place at my campfire anytime."  I respect your sticking to your guns for principle even if I don't totally agree with the outlook.  I am glad you are in the POG and sorry you did not come.  Hopefully we will see a blend of ideas in the future and things will grow.

Larry P

[brian kirby]

I actually agree with Larry and Dwight. Personally, I dont think a one day event should be a National Champion, but it is not Larry's fault that the AMA gives #1 plates for a one day event, the AMA set the rules. Larry won and deserves the win, end of story.

There are other weekend/single day National Championships too, so this is not the only one. For example Loretta Lynn's for MX and the Jet Ski National Champions for everything except Pros are a one weekend event at Lake Havasu. Now, both of those you have to qualify out of your home region to be allowed to go, but still, they are one day/weekend events that name a National Champion.

Brian

'72 Berkshire

[Lew Mayer]

Does anybody know how many signed up but didn't actually race at VMD. I know there were quite a few like that. Personally, I went for the swap meet and to see people I don't get to see too often. Unfortunately, Windham placed right before Mid-Ohio was not exactly good timing. I couldn't afford to go to both although I'm sure Jerry did a fine job on the course,as usual, at Windham. The Mid-Ohio course finished the year for Jim Foster since he broke his tibia in three places. He finally made it home today and probably will need a new knee because of it.

Lew Mayer

[Jerry Chafton]

Since this is only my second race outing in 34 years I certainly don't know all the details of the AMA/AHRMA dispute. But as a newbee to the Vintage Days I must say I had a great time. It was an honor to attend Mr. Penton's birthday party and meet the POG members that I had only read about.
My winning the #1 plate was quite a challenge, to put in 6 laps in one hour at 62 years of age is something I can be proud of. Even if the Championship is in name only (in some opinions) it will still be a cherished award.
Hopefully, these two sanctions can come together and make this event even better in the future. If not, I will just go race and have a good time at both AMA and AHRMA events.

Jerry C.

[Larry Perkins]

Jerry,

Great attitude!  It was nice to meet you and Congratulations on your number one plate.  Regardless of what others think you are an AMA National Champion as it is in the books and like I was told in the Astrodome many years ago it is FOREVER.  Way to go.

Larry P

[Rocket]

I believe the AMA has created a GNC before by a one race format, in the early 1950's, Bill Tuman won the Springfield, IL. mile and became the grand national champion in dirt track events.  What goes around comes around.  He was riding an Indian in case anyone was wondering.
Rocket

[HeinzRaidel]

It might be time we look at this fiasco,  quit blaming either AMA or AHRMA,  and look for some resolution based on what is going to be the  best for the sport.   That will require putting away (please) all our claims to national championships from whenever against whomever in whatever class, because at this point our personal wins (huge as they might have been ) are not long to be remembered except in our own minds. After awhile,  a person has to really start living in the here and now and start looking at the future.    

For the record, I am a slug, was a slug, and have no claims to any sort of win.  Anything to the contrary is confusion with my brother of a similar name.  

The question that kept popping up on the drive back from Windham (in the rain) was pretty simple:  Who do you think has the best interests of vintage bikes and vintage enthusiasts in mind?  Who or what organization has vintage people and bikes as its priority?    And once we're in the motor home or whatever we're going to do post bikes, post laying out enduros or cross countries or dual sports or rebuliding bikes until the late hours... when we move on  with the rest of our lives... who or what is going to give the young Cory Buttricks a chance to ride these stinkin' smokin' noisy old wrecks?  (okay,  Kent's bikes are the polar opposite of that description but never mind...)

Do you want to trust the fun (and maybe even the "legacy" of this sport if it rates that word) of the silliness we did and do with old bikes to an organization of people who actually own and ride old bikes;   or do you want to go with the spit and shine career people who work a nine to five and celebrate with a once year trip to six days on member's money???  
 

[Ernie Phillips]

Heinz wrote:

quote:Do you want to trust the fun (and maybe even the "legacy" of this sport if it rates that word) of the silliness we did and do with old bikes to an organization of people who actually own and ride old bikes; or do you want to go with the spit and shine career people who work a nine to five and celebrate with a once year trip to six days on member's money???

Thank you for you well thought out and concise statement of vintage racing's present dilemma.  For me, the choice is clear.



Ernie P.
Chattanooga, TN

[Larry Perkins]

Heinz,

Your comments are very leaned to one direction even though you say to not blame AMA or AHRMA.  I totally respect your opinion but disagree a bit.  In my opinion the REAL truth is that both groups have done things to HELP our sport and to HURT our sport.  

On the positive side the AMA has done a lot over the years to back AHRMA and that has produced a lot of growth.  The AMA has in particular let AHRMA run the races at VMD in years past and that money has greatly funded AHRMA.  Without it AHRMA would have struggled as it is now. Another positive the AMA has brought to the table is 100cc PV and youth as young as 12 being able to race. The AMA has brought a User Friendly atmosphere to registration and added a new level of rider recognition with the GNC idea.

AHRMA positively has done a lot to think out the preservation of eras.  They have also worked hard at coming up with a National program and expanded it from Vintage to Post-Vintage and Cross Country and ISDT events. They have spurred growth to expand large events like Diamond Don's and others.  Another AHRMA positive is that their ranks are filled with TRUE enthusiasts like Ted Landers.  That spirit alone carries a long ways through other deficits in my book.

On the Negative the AMA has made a big rift in making a decision to wash their hands of the pissing match between AHRMA and Ianucci.  This move has obviously split the racers in particular as some chose the AHRMA events the week before and some chose VMD.  The AMA's biggest negative is the financial loss AHRMA will suffer from this split.  

AHRMA has done some negative things for the sport too.  They have for one been their own worst enemy on several occasions and the Ianucci deal is a major one.  They have also fought changes that would help the future like the youth issue.  Youth is our only hope of a future as we all will pass and will need someone to carry on the love of these old bikes.  AHRMA has also become a bit anal and Nazi-like in registration and Tech inspection where user friendly would be better.

Part of why we are divided is that our sport is divided.  We are a group of two distinct types.  Some people are in Vintage to relive, preserve, and ride for enjoyment.  Another part is there for the thrill of racing the old bikes again in a safer format than modern racing.  This makes each a different vision of what is best.

Now the real truth is that NEITHER organization has the best mousetrap.  They are just different mousetraps.  I personally like things from both organizations and like Tom Flores no matter who puts it on at the end of a day am just happy I got to race.  That is the point of view of a true racer that races to race.  That is why I chose to race the AHRMA MX the week before and then drove all the way back to race at VMD.  I totally realize there are other points of view and once again am reminded of Ray Kroc's saying, "No one of us is as smart as all of us."

I would love to see a blend of all the good ideas and see an elimination of some of the lame ones.  That is what is BEST for the sport.  Not having to choose one or the other but for all the good ideas to be rolled into one so that all the good this sport deserves comes to pass.  For that to happen egos will have to be set aside by members and leaders alike.  The real question will be are we and our leaders on both sides capable of being big enough to do that for this great sport.

One last personal thing is that I think Championships whether they are one day ones or season long ones are important.  To the racer they are the Holy Grail and they are never forgotten.  To win is what drives a racer.  To be the best whether for the moment or a season is the goal.  There is a picture in my livingroom of me crossing the finishline at the 1982 World Cup of BMX.  My fist is raised and there is a string of riders behind me.  I can see the expression of "Yes" in my eyes.  I can look at that picture and and the Silver Cup that came from that effort these many years later and know that for one moment in time there was no one better than me in the whole World.  I think it is that feeling that all the true racers hope to feel no matter where they race and I hope all those that race will continue to pursue that end regardless of what organization they choose to do it with.

Larry P

[HeinzRaidel]

In case I missed the oppurtunity,  congratulations on that big BMX win Larry.

And,  thanks for making several of my points more clear by example.  

[Larry Perkins]

Heinz,

I am not sure if you are sincere or sarcastic but I sure did not mean to irk you if that is what I did.  Regardless I will always be proud of the things I worked hard for and also got lucky at.  I am not trying to say I am anybody special just that it is good to strive to a goal.

My main point is we need to stick together and support all of the sport and not pick sides which just further divides it.  I have just tried to show the good and the bad of both parties.

I totally respect your opinion and think you are a good guy even if we disagree a bit.

Larry P

[rob w]

So the AMA will have a vintage race once a year. It's not like this is some sort of a full blown competition to decide which org. will rule vintage racing. AHRMA and it's members can proceed as usual 51 weeks a year without feeling threatened.

ps...and as long as keep building one-day-only tracks in a flat field - I'll keep staying away.

[brian kirby]

quote:Originally posted by rob w

ps...and as long as keep building one-day-only tracks in a flat field - I'll keep staying away.

Same here.

Brian

'72 Berkshire