250 on ebay

[Heinz Raidel]

Folks, there is a '76 (they say its a '75) 250 on ebay right now...  Its worth a look just to read the ad.

 

[Chris Brown]

That's an interesting photo isn't it?
I didn't read the sellers comments. But I thought it's funny how you could see the photo re-touch to make the tires look black.
Notice the seat is just about rotted off. And it looks like the cylinder is caved in. That's a $400 replacement right there.
A complete core for a restoration.  
Goes in the newer class in vintage AHMRA.
I would be willing to give about $300 for it. I see the minimum hasn't been met yet at $355

Who else has a project going on?
Chris

 

[ktm_chas]

I am the owner of the "e-bay" penton. I want to clear up a few details that have been going on about this bike. Yes, I guess I did make a mistake on the year. It is a 1974. The frame serial # is: 54-412-800-57. The motor # says "KTM 54-30-003-010 Made In Austria". The little "clock" on the motor is inbetween the 6&7 and says 1974. So I guess it is an "ORANGE" 1974. It also has the "U" bracket holding the rear fender. As for retouching the tires on the photo, they are not retouched. The tires are "black". There are no white letters. They are the same tires that came on the bike 8 years ago when I got it from another collector (who also told me it was a 1975).

The cylinder is not "caved" in. There are 3 fins broken off. I am sending a new jug with the bike to the person who bought it. They just have to change it. I rode the bike all the time in the woods and did not find it necessary to change the "jug" every time I dropped the bike and broke off a fin.

The seat is not "about rotted off" it is torn from being well ridded. But this is something minor.

Before you "expert senior collectors" start making fun of (or putting down) someone else's bike, you should "read" the sellers comments. I never said this bike was in "show" condition. I said "it great addition for European Dirtbike collectors or for radical riding in woods. Runs excellent." Nowhere did I say it was in "show" condition.
Chas

 

[ktm_chas]

I am the owner of the "e-bay" penton. I want to clear up a few details that have been going on about this bike. Yes, I guess I did make a mistake on the year. It is a 1974. The frame serial # is: 54-412-800-57. The motor # says "KTM 54-30-003-010 Made In Austria". The little "clock" on the motor is inbetween the 6&7 and says 1974. So I guess it is an "ORANGE" 1974. It also has the "U" bracket holding the rear fender. As for retouching the tires on the photo, they are not retouched. The tires are "black". There are no white letters. They are the same tires that came on the bike 8 years ago when I got it from another collector (who also told me it was a 1975).

The cylinder is not "caved" in. There are 3 fins broken off. I am sending a new jug with the bike to the person who bought it. They just have to change it. I rode the bike all the time in the woods and did not find it necessary to change the "jug" every time I dropped the bike and broke off a fin.

The seat is not "about rotted off" it is torn from being well ridded. But this is something minor.

Before you "expert senior collectors" start making fun of (or putting down) someone else's bike, you should "read" the sellers comments. I never said this bike was in "show" condition. I said "it great addition for European Dirtbike collectors or for radical riding in woods. Runs excellent." Nowhere did I say it was in "show" condition.
Chas

 

[Chris Brown]

Sorry Chas, didn't mean to offend or "put down", merely commented on my observation. One of the bikes I bought had sat out in the weather and everything that was vinyl or rubber was rotten, and there was a rat's nest in the airbox, literally filled the box with stuffing. We thought we were going to gas it up and see if it would run. Lucky we didn't!

I rode for 15 years through the 70's and 80's, and then picked up the sport again about 4 years ago. I have never broken a cooling fin on an engine. You mentioned you had a new "jug", does that include the piston and ring set to set it up to new spec?

If the seat foam is usable, a $40 seat cover would make it like new!

Perhaps someone would like to buy it from you and restore it.

Chris.



 

[Larry Perkins]

EASY BOYS.  There is a good lesson in identification here for those that don't know.  The frame # on Pentons 1972 to 1976 tells when it was made and not what year it is.  Sometimes they are one in the same.  The bike in question starts with 412 and therefore was made in 1974 thus the 4 and in December therefore the 12.  Since it was made that late it is a 1975 frame.  The case in this instance was made in June or July of 1974 again this is in the clock on the case.  This could be a 74 motor or a 75.  If it is the motor that came with the bike originally then because of the frame it would be a 1975 bike.  Because time has caused a lot of motors to be replaced with another one this could be a 1974 motor in a 1975 chassis.  The last thing that caused confusion here was the orange tank which only came on 1976 and 1977 Pentons.  This has been added and is not original.  Because of that my vote is this is a conglomerate bike with multiple year parts.  Regardless it is a Penton and we all love our bikes good, bad, and ugly they are riding machines and we all share a love for them.

 

[Spyke130]

I have noticed a bit of elitism going on in the ranks of Vintage riders and to tell the truth I don't like it either! I used to ride a Penton 250 Hare Scrambler and my favorite bike of all time was my TR5MX, but because of my back injuries I have to ride long travel "Vintage"! And boy do some of the "others" look down their collective noses at those of us who choose to ride these bikes for whatever reason! The Evolution Class, as well as the Innovation Class or as the "AHRMA Elite" like to say, the Ultima class! Well if it weren't for these classes I may well not be riding. Kind of a shame that dirt bikers act like Harley riders when they pass a Honda, or some other Japanese motorcycle! I have been riding since 1966 and I remember jumps, big ones, watch On An Sunday. If some of you guys were riding tracks with those jumps today you would cry like a baby! I know I was once and am now the Vintage Chairman for a local AMA District. This isn't mean to to allienate, anyone but the cry babies. The real iron men know who they are! There I said it and now I am stepping off of my milk crate and putting my bike back up on it!

 

[Heinz Raidel]

Okay everyone has good points.  I had commented on this bike at vinduro when it was on ebay.   I once owned a '76 model which on the surface (shocks, forks, colors) looked exactly like the bike.  Of course the frame number is the tie-breaker, Larry called that right.  I thought Chas might have missed a digit in reporting his frame number also.  

Chris Brown, if you're the same Chris who has the 400 in the photo section, really really nice bike!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Chris Brown]

WOW. This is the most popular topic on the forum.... and 130 views to date (since I looked)

Thanks Heinz.
The 400 bike was all red/orange (gross) color with a white tank and fenders when I got it, even the frame and fork sliders. Since I was doing it to ride, not to restore to original, I picked my own colors. It has MC-5 side plates but I don't think they were designated as such in that year. They were replacements as the originals were long gone. It was a rotten mess.

Ident is important when trying to fit parts to these old bikes.

Oh, and Spyke, who are the elitists you mention? I'd say for vintage, the Euro bikes were rather elite. In those days the European bikes just kicked ass on the Japenese bikes. They copied the technology the Euros invented. For example, Husky had case reeds as early as '74. And Marzocci forks in 1978 had 9-10" of travel. We laid down the shocks on the first Euro bikes too.

I think the Vintage scene is cool because we can ride them, we get to plug into the history of the dirtbike sport, and it's fun to bring them "back to life."  Riding a "new" old bike is like the thrill all over again from when I was a teenager.

 

[Larry Perkins]

I too don't quite understand the lesser popularity in the Historic classes compared to Vintage.  Lack of popularity was always a big draw for me though.  Hey, I MX raced a 125 Penton about two seasons past it's "Day" because nobody wanted to MX them and everybody was on a Elsinore.  

I like both Vintage and Historic bikes so I plan to ride the National Vintage and Historic series next season so I can do both.  I think the early longer travel bikes were the ones that I went the fastest on.  I am short of stature and the eight to ten inch travel bikes gave me the most suspension/contollability combo.  The modern twelve inch bikes are plush but at 5'7" if it gets in a bad spot I won't be able to save it I just bail.  

The Historic classes have to gain in popularity for Vintage to survive long term.  This is because as time pases the definition of what is vintage must change.  
Part of what we like about these bikes is they are the bikes of our youth.  It was a simpiler less techno time.  Yet even today the bike of Jeff Smith's youth is a different breed of MXer than the one of my youth.  I look at his and it seems ancient and it is hard to believe anyone raced those monsters.  

Alot of the guys I have raced modern bikes with are in their twenties and they look at my Pentons and they look ancient and they wonder how anyone raced those monsters.  Who knows at fifty they may race Vintage because they yearn for those days when there were still two stroke racers that had human riders instead of the nuclear powered remote control robotic driven modern bikes.  Hey, it could happen.  At seventeen if you had told me of powervalves, watercooling, discbrakes, twelve inches of travel, and computer controlled suspension and igniton, and $6000 price tags I would have thought you were a little on the tweaked side.  

In the coming New Year whatever looks and feels the best to you get on it and ride it.  Relive history and be seventeen for a few moments again whether it has 4" or 10" of travel, whether it is restored to new or looks and rides like it was made in 1974-ENJOY!  And realize the guy next to you is getting the same thrill from his ride in his own way even if it is on an Elsinore when he could be on a real motorcycle like a Penton.  Okay, I couldn't resist.



Edited by - Larry Perkins on 12/29/2000  11:54:40 AM

[Bob]

The point here is not that vintage bike riders / collectors are snobs. It's not even about what year the Penton on Ebay is.

It's about people who sell things on Ebay and exaggerate the condition of what they're selling.

The Penton on Ebay was very rough, yet it wasn't described that way.

And yes, it does look like the tires were blackened using a photo manipulation / painting program. Don't know how or why, but the photo speaks for itself.

Do everyone a favor and describe what you're selling accurately. Describe ALL defects. It's the honorable thing to do.

Boys - you're dealing with collectables now, not just old bikes & parts.

[Larry Perkins]

Here at The Penton Man we sell a lot of stuff new and used on EBay and over the internet.  Used stuff in particular is very subjective.  Because we aim to please our policy is if the customer is not happy we refund or replace if possible.  The description done detailed and honest helps but if you are going to do EBay back up the product well so no one feels burned.  The price of NOS stuff is getting higher so bumps and scratches need to revealed.  It is only fair.

 

[ktm_chas]

First off, this is getting way out of hand.  It is obvious that some persons making comments about my "ebay" bike, have not actually seen the ad, or the pictures. So please... before anyone else comments about my "ebay bike", please check out the actual ad on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=521863100. If this ad no longer shows up, check out http://www.dirtriders.net/cycles/75-Penton-250.html, it is exactly, word for word, the same ad I placed on ebay on the description section.

I would like to say that I'm an honest seller. I'm sorry if I didn't say the bike was rough and I only said it ran excellent. The bike is not all that rough although it was well ridden in the woods and I assumed the pictures would speak for themselves. Check the ad for yourselves, I never "exaggerated" the condition of the bike. I never claimed the bike was in "perfect" condition, or that it was ready to "show".  As a matter of fact, I guess I did not say much about the physical condition at all. Some people have stated I should tell about each and every scratch, ding, dent, etc. so that it clarifies its condition to serious collectors. I was mainly trying to sell a bike to someone that was excellent to ride in the woods or to race. I would gather that since all the bashing I got on this website, the pictures did speak somewhat for themselves (at least to the "serious" collectors) although some of the comments made on this website were way off target.

If I had claimed the bike was in "perfect" condition and that it was ready to "show", I could see everyone picking at the bike and acting like I was trying to "scam" someone.

I don't know what you guys mean when you keep saying I manipulated the picture and "blacked" out the tires. What exactly does that mean? What would be the purpose? The tires are black. There are no white letters on them. They're black. If you look at the photos, the bike had been freshly washed and waxed (thus the dark, wet look on the concrete under the bike). The other picture was obviously "manipulated". This was because of the glare from the sun on the chrome back wheel and the freshly washed and waxed seat.  Someone who was trying to misrepresent the bike would have done a much better job at "doctoring" the photo. I think that if I had been trying to "fool" anyone, I would have "manipulated" the defects in the seat that is said to have looked like it was "rotting" off and "manipulated" the photo to "hide" the broken fins which were reportedly observed to be a "crushed" cylinder. Obviously, I wanted people to know that the bike had been ridden and did have some defects. I never claimed it was a perfect, mint condition, "collectors bike". (Although, it could be with some work.)  If it were in "mint" or "perfect" condition, obviously I would not have made the reserve so low.

Also, I gave in the ad my home phone # so that anyone with any questions could call me and ask for more details about the bike. Many people did call and some e-mailed me with questions about the exact condition.

P.S. I also neglected to put in the description that I had (since the picture was taken) replaced the muffler and that the bike came with an extra "undamaged" jug, head, piston, rings, crank, clutch basket, bing carburator - (basically an extra parts motor, silver no less) and an extra side plate. I guess this really makes me a dishonest seller. I did fool people. They thought they were just bidding on a "junk" penton and would have to find replacement parts for it themselves.

Seriously, by the time I realized I neglected to put these "extras" in the description, there were already bids on it and I couldn't change it.

[ktm_chas]

Sorry... before anyone jumps me, I mis-spoke. I replaced the exhaust(which no one seems to have noticed was broken off), not the muffler. And the comment about the "junk" penton was not referring to all pentons, but to my "ebay" penton because of all the negative comments everyone has about it.

[ktm_chas]

oops... also forgot to mention the bike came with the taillight. sorry... I must be getting senile.