Vintage 1000 Dual Sport Ride

[Rick Bennett]

At the last couple POG meetings I let the cat out of the bag that I was going to ride this event. Since then several POG members have showed interest in my adventure so here is the background. I am 63 years young and still think I am 18. When one of my customers sent the information on this ride I jumped at the chance to go. I raced in the 70's and owned a new Penton Six Days in 73. My twin brother Randy and I raced mostly hare scrambles because you rode longer than MX. I never rode an enduro as I there wasn't anyone in our group doing this. Looking back this was a big mistake. Fast forward to about six years ago when I found out about AHRMA and vintage racing, I only had one C&J framed Honda XL125 disassembled in the basement left over from the good old days. I quickly started buying bikes trying to find what I had back in the 70's. I bought a nice Six Days from a guy up in New England and have been racing it in the Mid Atlantic cross country series. It came with a title and lights so it is licensed for the road. When I first found out about this event I was planning on riding a Honda CL350 or SL350, but when I rewatched the John Penton movie I came up with the idea to take the Six Days. Taking a 125 on a 2500 mile adventure seemed like a challenge. The Vintage 1000 is a Dual Sport ride put on by Speed Deluxe that begins and ends in Chattanooga, TN (700 miles away), and goes to Apalachicola, FL. It is supposed to be a 1000 mile ride on "as much dirt as possible" in five (now six) days for bikes older than 1981. I am in the middle of rebuilding the Sachs motor with as many new parts as I can and will go over the roller to freshen it up. I have to carry a tent, sleeping bag, clothes, tools and spares. Speed Deluxe has agreed to carry my extra two stoke oil so I only need a days (200 miles) worth on the bike. They warned me to carry extra gas as previous two stroke riders have run out. When spring comes I will have to see what kind of mileage the bike will make on the road. I still need to update the ignition and lighting. Larry Maiers asked if I might be able to provide updates and photos over the internet. In the past there is an Instagram and Facebook site that has been used. You can see what past events have looked like by going there. I am about 90 days from leaving and trying to think about what this ride will take to accomplish. Anyone have any ideas?

[Larry Perkins]

Rick a couple of ideas on the gas.  I once saw a Don Vesco tank fitted to a Six Days and that would add almost a gallon.  There also used to be a Numberplate tank that had another 1/2 gallon in it.  Might be able to find one or both of those to help.  Of course the handling is effected.  When we raced the Vegas to Reno race in 2010 we had to use a big tank on our KTM150 because it was just Tom Flores and I and we were our own pit crew.  Worked great but it handled like a pig in the sandy sections.  Did get us there and we won so all was good.  Good luck with your endeavor!  One word of advice be easy on the throttle in fast sections.  My advice to our Best In The Desert team and Baja team when we did it was always two things.  "To finish first you must first finish" and " At the end of the day it will be better to say I could have gone faster than to say I wish I hadn't done that."

Larry P

[Rick Bennett]

Larry...thanks for the input. This event is not a race but a dual sport run. My objective is to make it the whole way without breakdowns as I like riding better than being on the pick up trailer. I have ordered an aluminum tank made from scratch and have a one gallon Rotopax to mount on the left side opposite the pipe. The guy in charge asked me to reconsider riding a 125 because he didn't want the others in my group to be waiting for me to catch up. Not sure that will be a problem.

[Rick Bennett]

I just got word from Jamie at Speed Deluxe. There are a couple spots still open for the May 6th Vintage 1000 Coastal ride if you are up for it. Bring a PENTON!

[Larry Perkins]

I totally realize it is not a race but is still easy to push a 125 too hard on straight sections. Hope all goes well and you reach your goal.  It is doable.

Larry P

[Rick Bennett]

Checked the calendar and less than 80 days until I head out. Cylinder bored with fresh Sachs piston. Bottom end welded up the broken fin from the last guy prying the case halves apart and bottom rear mount cracked. Fitted all new German FAG or SKF bearings. New rod on the crank. New 1st, 2nd, 3rd gears and selector key. Al introduced me to Brian Morroni at the York meet. He is building new aluminum toaster tanks so I ordered one. I am working on collecting the lighting needed to be street legal. My Motoplat will have to get exchanged for a PVL for power. I am considering adding a small battery and rectifier/regulator so I can have a charging plug. Still need to build a rack for the bags I need to carry and find some dual sport tires.
I checked the Speed Deluxe site today and there is a new entrant signed up on a Honda CB750. I think my Six Days is a better choice. There is a Sportster signed up for the August mountain 1000.

[firstturn]

One thing to remember if you are checking you spark plug for a reading if you note that it is a little lean you can always put the choke on a little bit to richen the gas mixture.  Just a thing we used to do on fire roads.

Ron Carbaugh

[Pat Oshaughnessy]

Rick please let us know how it goes when you get time. Sounds like a great adventure to me! Good luck & all of us POG members will be with you in spirit![]

[Paul Danik]

Hi Rick, possibly some of this you have covered, but.....

   Have you considered fitting a center stand to your machine ? Sure makes general maintenance a lot easier as well as parking, and your Road Warrior might be more top heavy than the designer of your sidestand had in mind when it was designed. If you do put a centerstand on it be sure to attach an inner tube rubber band to hold it up and keep it from bouncing up and down. If you need a centerstand I can lend you a used one, I think it only has about 6 days of use on it....

   Speaking of inner tube rubber bands, cut some extras and they can be easily stretched across the fork stops till you need them, consider making them out of a good innertube as an old junk one just might not have the integrity that will be required for your use.

   We have discussed the engine balance, but what about the wheels? First off, I would consider not running security bolts, I didn't run them in the ISDT and it sure makes tire changing and flat repairs easier, let alone the balance issue. We just ran higher tire pressure. Might consider taking your wheels to a shop and having them balanced after the tires are mounted. Vibration is a nasty enemy....

   I am sure you already know to pitch the rubber band than covers the spoke nipples under the inner tube and put tape over them instead, then cut a hole for the valve stem in the tape. Used to use silver tape but today Gorilla tape seems to be much better.

     The aluminum toaster tanks are beautiful, but have they been tested in battle? I am not a chemist, and I don't have any real knowledge of the issues with the modern fuel in the original tanks, but I do know that we have discussed using untested components in the Six Days and I think the same mindset applies to your upcoming ride.  

   How about the chain? I read about power lose with certain chains, but to me reliability and NO or very little maintenance would be the determining factor. Not having to maintain the chain would be a big bonus.

   Pay close attention to getting the swingarm bolt properly tightened, and be sure to use a graphite type material on its threads as well as the motor mount bolts that will need to be checked. Every set of threads on my ISDT machines had either a thread lock material or a never seize type material on them. I am sure as an airplane builder you know all of this, but just wanted to mention it.

  I gave thought to mentioning fitting a D cylinder for a little more power, but I don't think power will be an issue. A good reliable B cylinder / head /carb set up will do just fine. But if you were concerned about power, possibly choosing out of your cylinders the one with the largest overbore might give a tiny bit more. It has been interesting pulling apart some of the "A" engines that Ted Penton and the R & D guys built "back in the day" for the Steel Tank race machines and seeing them fitted with the largest overbore Sachs made, they obviously only had one thing on their mind and a parts room full of cylinders...  

    Reliability is the name of the game....and having fun  I always said I would rather have my Six-Days machines heavier that the next guys and know it was ready for anything, and that every item on it was proven.

   Are you using 35mm forks ?  What about rear tire size, I personally always liked bigger tires rather than smaller and your machine will be a little heavier than usual.

   When sliding the brake cams into the backing plates be sure to put a little grease on them as well as on the cams when fitting the brakes. Using a wire wheel on the shaft of the cams as well as the cams themselves to get them really clean before applying the light coat of grease never hurts. I always liked to have a machine set up so that when you pushed it there was nothing creating any power robbing rolling friction and a hung up brake cam is a real pain. I realize a little to no maintenance chain may steal a little power, but that seems like a fair trade off to me.

  I am sure you know most if not all of this stuff, just enjoying thinking about it. You will do fine...

Paul

[Rick Bennett]

Paul
Thanks for the input. I have been thinking about the crank balance problem. The Penton Sachs workshop manual, page 41, balances the crank at 8o to 83% of G. The crank you provided balanced at 59%. Just for my own education I balanced a 1974 Honda CR125 crank and it tested at 49%. I then checked a 1978 YZ125 crank and it was 53%. Even if my work has slight error Sachs is way off. I think you were on the right track as my Six Days vibrates like crazy. With the heavier replacement rod a stock crank would balance better than 80% without other work. I think I will start at your 59% and if I have time I will try even less. It is surprising to me that the Germans missed the balance by so much.

[Rick Bennett]

Yikes...I just learned that the Vintage 1000 is more like 1500 over six days now that the organizer has the route almost laid out. This is becoming more of a challenge and will be more like 3000 miles round trip. 70 days until I head out. Working on completing the motor since balancing the crank following what Paul Danik had done to his 73 ISDT motor. I ended up at 55% of G on the balance. Time will tell if it was the right thing to do. I loose a Jag out of my shop tomorrow and will bring the bike in so I can check wheel bearings and such. I need to build a rack for my bag and Rotopax gas can, add lights and change the tires. I will disassemble the hubs/brakes and lube everything as there will be streams to cross and rain.
Paul...I will take you up on your offer to borrow a center stand to copy. Just being able to lube the chain by myself will make it worth having. I can build one and return it right away. I think a spare chain might be a good thing to carry. I have been using DID nz er chains and they hold up very well and don't stretch much. The 14/54 gearing and 15/57 are almost the same but I think the larger front sprocket is the way to go.
In case I get into trouble are there any POG members in the route area between Chattanooga and Apalachicola around the Alabama/Georgia border that own Sachs powered machines?
70 days to get it all figured out...
Anyone else want to come? There are three spaces left and you still have time to get ready!
Rick

[Daniel P. McEntee]

HI rick;
  This sounds like fun and if I were ten years younger and single I might like to ride along with you! In regards to a spare chain. Since space and weight are an issue, I wouldn't take a complete spare chain. Just preride the chain you will be using to break it in. get it all lubed up and ready to go. When I was racing enduros back in the day, I would make a kit of a single,two, four and six link sections of chain along with some half links and some spare master links, plus a small chain breaker. The idea is to just put your chain back together any way you can using that kit. if you have the tension set properly, maybe just a bit loose with a spring loaded tensioner, I doubt that you will run much risk of breaking a chain, and like wise wearing it out on the ride. The links ans other spares will at least let you ride out of trouble. On my first ride after being off a bike for 25 years, I decided to run the ISDT Reunion Ride in Cas Arkansas at the last minute, like when I woke up in the van on Saturday morning! I had just put my 1975 Husky 250WR back together after getting it back from the guys who owned it. I had hand wound a primary coil for the ignition in order to get it running, and other than that, the bike was exactly as I had last raced it in 1975 or '76. Same tires and everything!. I had put several spare master links at the intersection of some spoke on the front wheel where they could be seen and they were still there. I hit them with a little oil just in case I would need them, and found the little pack of links I had from back in the day in an old tool box and put it in my tool bag. About 10 or 12 miles out, (you guessed it!) the chain broke. I had just enough stuff, including the small chain breaker that I had from back in the day, to piece the chain back together, and I managed to finish the day. That afternoon I was able to buy a new chain from Jeff Fredette and put it on for the next days ride, and managed to finish both days without houring out after not having ridden a motorcycle for 25 years! I think you should just focus on what you can fix on the road and plan for that, and even have an idea of what it would take for you to drop out, and use that thought to help you plan what to take. Keep it to a minimum of absolutely the most necessary stuff to keep weight down, and trust your instincts and a thorough pre-ride preparation and inspection. You know your bike, and you know your limits, that should help you figure it all out. Good luck and have fun, and wish Oi was going with you! Sounds like a lot of fun!
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[Rick Bennett]

Daniel
Great idea to just fix a broken chain. I only rode hare scrambles back in the day so a broken chain meant you were done. You guys that ran enduros looked at breakdowns differently. Exactly the kind of input I am looking for. Weight will be a problem on a 125, so the less I take the better. As for the ten years younger part, my feeling is that I don't want to regret not doing this trip when I get even older than I am now. Whatever happens it will be a fun adventure.
Rick

[wfopete]

Didn't see it posted; here is the link for the SD1000:

http://speeddeluxe.com/sdva/vintage1000/

Talked to the Speed Deluxe folks this morning, the biggest problem with 2-strokes is lack of power on the elevation changes...and they were talking about 250cc bikes.

Pete Petrick
175 Jackpiner
Slow but Good

[Rick Bennett]

Paul Danik told me it would be OK for me to wait for them at the top.
Rick