I NEED HELP-1975 Penton 125 PROTOTYPE w/Hiro Eng!

[PJM]

I own a 1975 Six-Day-125cc MX prototype with a Hiro engine. I have been told that the Hiro engine was made in Italy. Is this true?  I have come up empty searching the internet for information related to Hiro. I want to bring the bike out of storage and I have no owners/repair manual.  For starters, does anyone have any knowledge of where I can get information and a manual on the Hiro engine?  Does anyone have any experience with or knowledge of the Hiro engine?  Is the company still in existence?  Are parts avilable?  Does anyone know how many Penton prototypes were made with the Hiro engine? I find it exciting that my bike may be a rarity, but challenging to find information on it. I've got the bug to get it up and running and need help finding the necessary information.  Can you help me?

PJM, Saline, MI

pjm

[Doug Wilford]

PJM;
Those were made after my days with Penton your best bet would be to get in touch with Dane Leimbach or Jack Penton.   Dane runs the Penton Imports, PVL ignitions and Jack is employed by KTM.

 

[Paul Danik]

The Hiro engine is Italian. I have several of the Hiro engines and also a section of the cardboard container in which they were shipped to Penton Imports.  I am told that SWM used the Hiro in their trials machines. Does yours have a Penton name plate on the side of the engine??  I have had small oval Penton name plates for years and not figured where they were ment to be used.It turns out that they fit the indent on the side of the Hiro engine perfectly. Seems as though someone had a plan!!!!!! My engines have motoplat ignition systems.  I would really like to see some pictures of your machine. I have seen a Puch powered Penton but never saw one with the Hiro installed. What is the serial number on your frame? The deal was that Mr. Penton was always looking for alternate power plants incase the need ever arose.  You may have the one and only Hiro powered Penton anywhere. I have also been told that the Hiro engines were used in several other brands of machines, kind of like the way the Rotax and Sachs engines were used.I seem to remember hearing that Benelli may have used the Hiro also.  Hope I have been of some help.
   Paul Danik


 

[PJM]

Paul,
Thank you for responding to my request for help.  

Do you know if there are any owner/repair manuals for the Hiro 125cc engines?  Is the company still in business?  Are parts available any where? Are your engine 125cc also?  

Yes the engine does have PENTON labels on the sides of the engine casings.  The rectangular sticker/plate (0.75" x 2.25")is light blue with chrome "PENTON" lettering and they are placed inside the indentation on both the left and right side casings.  The sticker/plates are an exact fit to the rectangular indentations that have rounded corners.  The base on the left side of the head has "GILARDONI" casted and  there is a "G" or "C" stamped on the rear side of the head's base. I have not been able to find any other manufacturer identification or serial number on the engine.  Do your engines have any?  If so, where should I look?  Is this consisten with your engines?

My Hiro also has a motoplat ingnition system.  I wonder if your engines are of the same vintage?  Maybe they were sent to Penton at the same time.  My frame serial number is 411 78857.  I read yesterday that 411 signifies that it was made in Nov. 1974.  Does the 78857 reveal any similar information?

I purchased my bike in 1976 from Piasecki's motorcycle shop in Toledo, Ohio and one of the Piasecki sons owned it and had raced it a couple of times.  When I was purchasing it, I was informed that Penton was trying out the Hiro engine, but I have no idea how many other Hiros were installed.

Thanks again and I hope there's more that you and others can share.

PJM, Saline, MI

pjm

[Paul Danik]

It sounds like our engines are alike.  I had searched mine for serial numbers and any other ID and found only what you have found. I would assume that our engines rode the boat  together to the USA from the land of the grapes. I also remember hearing that the deal was made to try the Hiro engines while we were in Camerino, Italy for the 1974 ISDT. As far as manuals and parts I have never heard of any. I have done a couple of web searches for info on Hiro and have never gotten to far. The numbers on your frame, after the month and year, would be the production numbers. The Piasecki's were involved with selling and racing Pentons and maybe were asked to give the machine a good test and report their findings.  There were always reporter types dropping by the Penton shops and I am sure that Mr.Penton didn't want a picture of that machine getting out. Either way you own a piece of Penton history and have helped fill in some vary valuable information. I would really like to see a picture of that machine. Have you ever been to Amherst, Ohio??  I would like to invite you to come down sometime and be our guest at a Penton Owners Group meeting and do a show and tell session with your machine. We can arrange a tour of the KTM facility and maybe even get to show you around the Penton Farm Market and show you where the first Pentons that came to the USA were stored in the loft above the market. I hope you are enjoying this as much as I am!!! Paul Danik

 

[Dante]

I'm not a member, BUT I sure would like to be invited also....just a short "hop" up the "pike"       Truly, Dante

 

[Paul Danik]

Dante,
   I think that you are from the Pittsburgh area, am I correct? I live in Mars, just north of Pittsburgh and south of Butler. I used to race against a Dante Clemente years ago at Murrysville Raceway, that wouldn't be you would it?  I think he and his brother, Dino?? ran Carabellas.  Paul Danik

 

[Dante]

Not me...but I DID race in Hannastown (Country Springs)several years later !

 

[Dante]

Just checked the Monroeville phone book and there's several "Clemente's" including a
DF Clemente......I'm headed up there now to look for Mexican dirtbikes.....LOL

 

[sachsmx]

Try Jake Fischer. He has some Hiro engines bought from John Penton years ago. Maybe he has some parts or manuals too. Also, you might want to join the Vinduro group at: [email protected]. There are many European members who may be able to help you.

 

[PJM]

Paul Danik,

Thank you very much for your response last week.  Let me start by saying, YES I am enjoying this as much as you...well truth have it, I bet it is much more!  In the back of my mind I always thought it could be a rare one.  I almost sold it 10 years ago, but decided not to at the last minute.  I am glad I changed my mind!!!  

I plan to send pictures your way, but the problem is that I don't have any right now.  Don't fret, I will be borrowing a digital camera soon. Please remember that everything on the bike is original from when I bought it from Piasecki's (needs a new rear fender, and side number plate/covers) and I have not begun to restore it.  I had Piasecki's add a preston Petty number plate headlight and  tail light so I could license it for road use.  Never licensed it and never got caught!  If my memory serves me right I recall that Piasecki's custom built the expansion chamber when it was raced MX.

I have been close, passing by on the turnpike, but never been to Amherst, Ohio.  I would LOVE to come down sometime and be your guest at a POG meeting and do a SHOW and TELL...I'll SHOW it and you guys can TELL me what you know. I am not going to begin restoring it until after I show it that way I can get some tried and tested advice from you guy's on how best to go about it.  

A tour of the KTM facility and Penton Farm would be great if it could be arranged.

By the way, my POG application is in the mail.  I am going to get my brother to join also. He has a 1973 125 enduro.  At one time he also owned a Jackpiner that Dick Burelson used in an ISDT.  I think he regrets selling it.

Thanks again,



pjm

[PJM]

SACHSMX,

Thanks for you response.  Can you or any one else forward me Jake Fischer's e-mail address and/or telephone number. My e-mail address is [email protected].  By the way, thanks for recommending that I join vinduro@yahoogroups.

pjm

[Rocket]

Here are Fischer's phone numbers.  Good luck trying to get a hold of him, sometimes hard to catch.  724 586 7383 OR 412 781 6309 ASK FOR JAKE
Rocket

 

[Paul Danik]

PJM
   Dave Duarte called me from California last night, Dave had been involved with the running of Penton West back in the 70s.  He said that 10 Hiro engines were imported by Penton. He was with Mr. Penton in Italy when they met the Hiro owners and toured the facility.  Dave said that Penton West was shipped 5 frames for the project and Carl Cranke built four machines with the Hiro engine.  The fifth frame was used to build a Carl Cranke hand built 175cc Sachs machine. I need to get a request off to Carl for more information on this issue.  Dave is remembering more and more as we talk so he might have more info as time goes on. If four engines were used to build machines, I have two engines, Ron Carbaugh has two engines, and I think Jake Fischer has one engine, thats nine of them. I also have a spare cylinder. I mentioned to Dave that my engines are new but don't have pistons, he mentioned that they were going to use a weisco piston? If you get a peek at your piston see if there are any markings that may help. We have a POG meeting this coming Thursday, March 29 in Amherst.  The next one after that is the first Thursday in May, May 3rd. We almost always meet the first Thursday of the month at 7 PM at the KTM building.  You are welcome to bring your Hiro Powered machine whenever suits you. All Penton enthusiasts are also welcome to the meetings, even non POG members may attend and hopefully will join after attending.
I still get excited as I hit the road each month for the 2 1/2 hour trip to Amherst, give it a try sometime!!!!  Paul

 

[PJM]

Thanks for the additional information.  Sounds like I own one of 4 machines originally built with the Hiro engine or do you think that I have the 10th engine that may have been used to build a 5th machine in Ohio? Seems possible, maybee Dane could add some clarification here. Would Penton West have sent a built machine to Piasecki's in Toledo, Ohio?

I have not needed to take a peak at the piston and hope there is no need to in the near future.

Because of personal commitments, I won't be able to make it to the next 2 meetings, but I plan to make it to the June 7 meeting and have placed it on my calendar.  The trip to Amherst is ~ 3 hours, but it could be less if the Ohio Highway Patrol is not out and about.

pjm