Rarest KTM

[Rocket]

I sold a 1977 Penton 100, Sachs motor, to Bildough in Oregon and I would say that is a very rare Penton/KTM motorcyle.  Nobody seems to know much about the 100 in 77 and the person I bought it from remembers 2 coming through the dealership he worked at in the 70's.
Rocket

[Larry Perkins]

GEEZ!  I said my figures were off the top of my head and said that someone with actual statistics could get the number exactly right.  This is a discuccion group not an encyclopedia so ease up.  I think for off the top of my head which has been knocked unconcious a half dozen times or so in 35 years on these bikes(once for a week) I wasn't far off.  If you have learned or listened to anything here it is that there are different accounts to most everything.  

If you have a certificate that Rod signed saying 133 you have the best proof of that statistic so it sounds like the number on the Anniversary 200 is 133.  200 or 133 it is a rare bike and you should be proud to own it just don't get all bent, Please.

Larry P

[generalbay]

Larry,I am not upset, and as I have already stated I'm not out to upset anyone. I was just trying to help, any or everyone.You seem to be a bitter person, I don't know you or your circumstance but I was not trying to upset you. In the future I will not participate in any discussions you are involved in, unless it is a compelling subject that I feel I must responed to, such as this one. Did you notice that I didn't  emphasise any words? As I stated earlier, I am not upset nor am trying to upset anyone. I just feel that any figures given should be as accurate as possible. I thought that this is an open forum where EVERYONE CAN GIVE THIER OPINION or am I wrong? If I am I'm sure you'll let me know.David Duval

[Larry Perkins]

David

There are things I have talked about on the POG that I have been bitter about and I think for good reason.  This is not one of them.

 I will be real honest with you, though.  I responded with an attitude that you were being anal and I think you were.  No one quoted any number with the idea that it was the exact statistical number and you took exception to that which in my opinion was silly.  To say that if someone says a number that is from memory and not exact that they are then not credible is erroneous.  The people that answered in this discussion are very credible people and several of them carry in their heads more info about the Penton Marque than will ever be discussed here.  That is because they were there and lived it so please don't trivialize it.

If you choose to not respond in a discussion that I participate in that is your perogative but also your loss and if you have info on the subject such as you did here it is the loss of everyone.  I will continue to tell it like I see it as that is my nature. I am always big enough to admit I am wrong also.  I just don't think that is the case here.  I just think I told you in a round about way you were being nit-picky and offended that we did not get the exact number of your collectible bike.  Be glad we even remembered that they were made because it was not that many years ago that all of these bikes were forgotten and not collectible.  Thanks once again for providing the EXACT number of Anniversary 200 KTMs produced and released in the U.S.  Perhaps others will come up with exact numbers so we can stand corrected and be precise.  Have a Great Day!:D

[generalbay]

Larry, Seek first to understand and then to be understood. Dave

[ktm96duke]

here's a SUPER rare one i'd want- the 250 OBSERVED TRIALS bike! i think it was 77 or 78.

JP
1980-1981 all sizes

[Larry Perkins]

JP, that was I think a prototype and indeed most rare if existant still.

David

Ditto!  By the way, What is the meaning of Life Swami?

Larry P

[tomale]

Easy boys, I am sure that everyone wants to be accurate as they can and to assume that we are just throwing out numbers for the sake of saying something is nor fair. The fact is that we are talking about a motorcycle that only saw production for a few short years. As we have seen before, records have been misplaced or heavens even thrown out and our memories fail us. The point is not how many or even which ones are certified  but that in fact they are rare, for more reasons than just how many of them were made. We need to be very careful not to point fingers. We are here because we love these bikes. Let us not trample on that or each other. If there is a problem then the best way to handle it is to ask questions so that we will all understand. Leave the compitition for the track.

Thom Green,Still crazy after all these years!
76' 250 MC5 (orginal owner)
78' 400 MC5

[Gavin Housh]

Lets get back to the original post. If money was not an object I would seek out one of the works 250cc Guennady Moiseev world motocross championship bikes. I've heard that the one featured in the 2003 Ktm calander is a replica and not the real bike that was ridden by Moiseev in 1977/1978. In any case any world championship bike would be very desirable. G man.

[alandspeed]

Didn't Mr. Penton have to smuggle a few of the first bikes into the country before thing were set up, making them his bikes AND the first?  What would you give for a peice of history?

[Larry Perkins]

Thanks Thom! I try not to throw rocks unless I think one is thrown.  I will try harder to just not throw.

I think, and this is from memory not from a book, that the works bikes were destroyed.  Also if I remember right Mosiev won the Worlds in 74 and someone else maybe Kingardner won in 77.  Spelling may not be right on either.  None of this is really relevant to the rareity of a true works bike which would definitely be Very collectible.

Larry P

[Gavin Housh]

Larry, Your partly right. Moiseev did win three times including 1974/77/78. Kingardner won the 250cc title in 1984/85. I'm not sure what they did with the bikes, but I've heard there is a guy in Europe that has hundreds of bikes. Many of which are works machines that won titles in FIM motocross races through out Europe. What was the thinking behind destroying the bikes? You would think that they would want to preserve them as a piece of history? Thanks, G man.

[firstturn]

Gavin,
  I cannot speak from experience about what KTM did with their works bikes (no, that isn't a double plural).  I can speak from experience from one of the big four on what happen to many bikes.  Some were destoyed plain and simple.  Some where proto types that were in the country on a showbike customs acknowledgement.  These bikes had to be accounted for if the were destoyed or sent back to Japan.  There were some works bikes that were given to the riders or their mechanic disassembled it and took it home.
  The stories go on and on, but remember that some of the bikes were valued at $100,000 and so when they were destoyed (maybe[:0]) the company wrote this off as a deduction.  I can tell you of bikes dropped of in different areas between the track and back to the Team Headquarters.  All great bench racing material.  Hope this helps with the never ending quest to what happened to those bikes.[8D]

Ron Carbaugh

[TGTech]

FEI: When KTM "went under" in the early '90's, Arnaldo Farioli, the Italian KTM distributor, "bought" most, if not all, of KTM's museum. In the past couple of years, KTM bought out the Italian distribution, and part of that purchase, included these museum pieces. I have no idea of which machines were included in these deals, but for one machine that holds my interest: the prototype of the 125 Penton Six Day.

I'm going to do some snooping to see if I can learn what machines were included in these deals, so I'll let everyone know what I find out.

alandspeed: If JP did any smuggling, it didn't have to do with the first Pentons, at least not intentionally. I'm sure that over the years, there were some things that could have been "smuggled" in, but I doubt that the motorcycles were a part of that.

Dane

[Kip Kern]

Dane  I have a friend or two in Rome who are pretty thick into KTM/Penton, both bikes and parts.  If I can relay info to them to further help your search (leg work), please let me know.  I just got a repro centerstand from Camarino for the late 70-early 80 KTM's and my friend indicates that there are several more items for Pentons available.  Some of the parts Karl reproduced for us came from my "Italian Connection."  I also talked to Al today and he indicated that parts requests are coming in from Italy. Please keep us posted on your findings and "thanks" in advance! [8D]